RSS Feed
  0 users browsing Discussion. | 3 guests  
Main » Discussion » Monocultures in Linux and browsers (formerly "Windows 10")
Pages: First Previous 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Last
Posted on 19-03-25, 12:38
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #122 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 67 days
Last view: 65 days
Posted by wertigon
AME won't get anywhere. It's a C&D lawsuit waiting to happen, since copyright law expressly forbids every redistribution and modification of Windows 10. You do not have a legal means of fixing the Windows telemetry. Your best bet if you want to stay in Windows land besides that is ReactOS, which will always play second fiddle to Windows.
Yeah, but what are they going to do? Sure, they could send some rude letters, but in the end there's not much you can do to take down a website that hosts content you don't like.

Posted by CaptainJistuce
Right. These guys could post scripts to do the modifications, and instructions. But they can't legally just put up a new Windows distro.
As I see it, this is just a theoretical concern. They can put up a Windows distro that people are able to download, and that's all that counts; the paperwork is irrelevant as long as it stays unrealized.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-25, 14:17
Not from my cellphone

Post: #222 of 660
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 1 day
Last view: 2 hours
Be my guest then.

I don't get why you get really dense on this. Sure, if the project is kept low-key, they can avoid getting impacted by the wrath of Big Ol' M$. But as soon as it gets popular, you're in danger. "Popular" and "low-key" are mutually exclusive - once the cat is out of the bag there is no going back. There are precedents - Microsoft loves monopolies (there is this popular belief that MS benefits every single time someone pirates Windows/Office, and that's true up to a extent), but they are also very protective of their IP. The best you can do for these anonymous guys is to avoid advertising the project as much as possible.

What these guys are doing is ILLEGAL, period. And there are certain big players you don't want to mess with. Sony, Nintendo, Oracle, and of course, Microsoft. Nobody cares if you give away Windows on DVD-Rs to your close friends, but as soon as your custom ISO mods hits the top positions at the download charts, Microsoft will notice them, while wanting their heads served on a silver tray. Nobody wants to deal with lawyers (just ask any of the most notorious PS3 hackers... if you can - Sony did managed to land one of them in jail, and got another barred from using Sony hardware for life!)

I dislike Microsoft as much as the next guy here, but let's get real: it's not if, but WHEN you get caught!

Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free
Posted on 19-03-25, 15:34
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #124 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 67 days
Last view: 65 days
I'm not a developer of this project, just an interested third party, so I don't really have a dog in this fight - I just think it's a cool idea to make a fixed version of Windows 10.

I get that it's theoretically illegal, and after some further studies it appears some members of the development team are grossly reckless with the personal information, but if they'd use basic technology like Tor or a non-logging VPN they wouldn't be in much danger if any at all. Plenty of other websites have managed to stay online despite controversy - The Pirate Bay, Sci-Hub, Library Genesis, etc. You run a bloody release group and have your legal name on the same page.

Presumably, something similar to Popcorn Time would play out: someone sends them a C&D, the less privacy-savvy developers bail, and they start receiving new, anonymous contributions due to the PR they got from it. Of course, it can't be ruled out that some of them would be the old friends under another name. At any rate, the project is now alive and well.

As for doing the best about these anonymous guys, no. They advertise the project, so I can only trust them to have been prudent. If not, then whatever happens happens. If one of them were to end up in jail, that'd have been on them. There's no point in developing a project publicly and then attempting to cover it up, and they advertise it themselves so I wouldn't think that's the goal.

Hosting guy is probably the only one violating any actual laws, so I suppose it's a race against time: will he manage to dissociate himself from the project before shit hits the fan?

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-25, 21:35
Post: #25 of 130
Since: 11-24-18

Last post: 14 days
Last view: 1 hour
Posted by sureanem
I get that it's theoretically illegal


No. Not theoretically. It is illegal. Period. It is a crime punishable by jail time.

You don't like it, start changing international copyright law.
Posted on 19-03-26, 00:00 (revision 1)
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #126 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 67 days
Last view: 65 days
The issue remains firmly in the theoretical domain as long as you observe privacy best practices. In reality, there is no issue, only on paper.

Alexandra Elbakyan was right. People are too concerned with the theoretical aspects of it all to see what drives the actual change here in the world. While other people were busy negotiating useless deals which have yet to amount to anything, she rolled up her sleeves and did some actual programming work and affected an actual change. If there'd be more people like her there'd be less problems.

I have yet to see her serving any jail time for any supposed crimes.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-26, 00:15
Not from my cellphone

Post: #224 of 660
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 1 day
Last view: 2 hours
graf_chokolo (prominent PS3 hacker) said the very same thing. He only posted anonymous links (free of copyrighted material, I must remember!) through comments on blogposts (he didn't ran his own blogs/websites). He was posting from somewhere in Eastern Europe, where the risks of getting in trouble by messing with foreign IP from non-European corporations were theoretically nil.

He is rotting in jail right now (?), all his computers seized and his life completely ruined just because Sony went nuclear on him, all for absolutely NO crime whatsoever (but Sony deep pockets were good enough to buy a couple courts of "justice"), unlike those guys distributing modded Windows ISOs, where there is an actual crime being committed (unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials, unauthorized modification of copyrighted materials).

God damn it, I can't believe I'm defending one of the axis of evil, Microsoft!

Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free
Posted on 19-03-26, 00:17
Full mod

Post: #180 of 394
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 24 days
Last view: 1 day
Ah, the ol' "it's not wrong unless you're caught" defence.

While there's definitely a time and place for civil disobedience, I find it hard to muster sympathy for people who say "I demand Microsoft control my computing environment, but not quite that much". If you want Microsoft to control your computing environment, let them do that. If you don't trust them to act with your best interests at heart, don't let them act at all.

> Hosting guy is probably the only one violating any actual laws

As long as their hosting provider takes down the infringing content as soon as they receive a DMCA notification, they haven't broken any laws at all.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 19-03-26, 01:19 (revision 1)
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #127 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 67 days
Last view: 65 days
Posted by tomman
graf_chokolo (prominent PS3 hacker) said the very same thing. He only posted anonymous links (free of copyrighted material, I must remember!) through comments on blogposts (he didn't ran his own blogs/websites). He was posting from somewhere in Eastern Europe, where the risks of getting in trouble by messing with foreign IP from non-European corporations were theoretically nil.

He is rotting in jail right now (?), all his computers seized and his life completely ruined just because Sony went nuclear on him, all for absolutely NO crime whatsoever (but Sony deep pockets were good enough to buy a couple courts of "justice"), unlike those guys distributing modded Windows ISOs, where there is an actual crime being committed (unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials, unauthorized modification of copyrighted materials).

God damn it, I can't believe I'm defending one of the axis of evil, Microsoft!


Since when is Germany located in Eastern Europe?
If he was anonymous, then how come a quick Google search yields the name "Alexander Egorenkov"?

If you're in a position where they could pay off a court, you've already fucked up.
Posted by Screwtape
Ah, the ol' "it's not wrong unless you're caught" defence.

While there's definitely a time and place for civil disobedience, I find it hard to muster sympathy for people who say "I demand Microsoft control my computing environment, but not quite that much". If you want Microsoft to control your computing environment, let them do that. If you don't trust them to act with your best interests at heart, don't let them act at all.

> Hosting guy is probably the only one violating any actual laws

As long as their hosting provider takes down the infringing content as soon as they receive a DMCA notification, they haven't broken any laws at all.

No, it's the good old "it's never wrong" defense. I mean, I agree with you. It'd be better to apply this methodology to a project such as ReactOS than to create a half-baked semi-free Windows 10. But the amount of freedom per unit of work is still orders of magnitude higher for this than for most of the other FOSS projects. That it could be even higher in theory doesn't negate this.

The The Pirate Bay people didn't do anything wrong either despite being put behind bars. That said, they obviously had a good faith belief that what they were doing was legal (which it was, but their government didn't feel like standing up for them). The situation is somewhat different if you had someone who'd try to pull the same antics in 2019, now that it's common knowledge what happens if you run a torrent website without bothering with privacy. They still wouldn't have had it coming, but obviously they did to some extent bring it upon themselves.

By "hosting guy", I mean whoever is responsible for building the ISO files and sharing them. It's A-OK to contribute to their scripts under your real name.

The ideal for any project would of course be to have one guy living in Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, or San Marino as a frontman, and then the rest of the project can be segregated so to not pose any legal issues for the remaining contributors, nor him as he would not be subject to the international copyright law.

This is kind of how sci-hub works, and they're almost the exact project you argue should be impossible. Large-scale copyright violation, against a company that's willing to spend almost unlimited resources on pursuing it, large amounts of heat, have been sued for $4,800,000 and lost. Not sure what more could "go wrong". Maybe the author getting doxxed? Nope, public figure. Alive and well, studying somewhere in Kazakhstan.

If it's impossible, then how come you can go to https://sci-hub.tw/ and download any scientific paper for free?

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-26, 01:29
Custom title here

Post: #358 of 862
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 hours
Last view: 2 hours
Posted by sureanem
The issue remains firmly in the theoretical domain as long as you observe privacy best practices. In reality, there is no issue, only on paper.


It isn't theoretical. The expression is "you're only in trouble if you get caught", not "it's only illegal if you get caught".

--- In UTF-16, where available. ---
Posted on 19-03-26, 02:50
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #128 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 67 days
Last view: 65 days
Well, that's true, but the possibility of getting caught is only theoretical if one observes privacy best practices. Screwtape said "wrong", which is another thing entirely.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-26, 02:53
Custom title here

Post: #359 of 862
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 hours
Last view: 2 hours
I think you are using a diffrent definition of theoretical than the rest of us.

--- In UTF-16, where available. ---
Posted on 19-03-26, 03:19
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #129 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 67 days
Last view: 65 days
Theoretical in the sense of having little to no practical importance. Or if I'm going to be really obnoxious and bring out the dictionary, "existing only in theory."

What definition are the rest of you using?

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-26, 05:58
Custom title here

Post: #360 of 862
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 hours
Last view: 2 hours
Theoretical in the sense that it is believed, but not proven. "Existing only in theory", to quote the dictionary(And using the common definition of theory instead of the scientific one, as this is not a scientific discussion).

The existence of a publicly-accessible code of law is proof of legality, and one of the major societal wins for the lower class is that there are no theoretically criminal acts.

The possiblity of getting caught is, similarly, a non-theoretical risk. It may be a minimal one if you are a good criminal, but it is still known to exist.


--- In UTF-16, where available. ---
Posted on 19-03-26, 06:56
Post: #26 of 130
Since: 11-24-18

Last post: 14 days
Last view: 1 hour
Posted by sureanem

If it's impossible, then how come you can go to https://sci-hub.tw/ and download any scientific paper for free?


For the same reason Nintendo isn't cracking down on every single ROMhack out there - it's not hurting the business enough to warrant resources spent to shut it down, and most of those ROMhacks is some teenager just messing about with old code. Then every once in a while you get things like Crimson Echoes and Paralell Worlds.

The AME project will only survive as long as less than 2% of Windows 10 users have it. Installing this kind of non-sanctioned script also comes with a certain measure of risk, since it in theory could be developed or taken over by unscrupulous russian hackers trying to gain access to your computer and thus installing backdoors. I deem the risk as quite likely in fact, but to each to their own.
Posted on 19-03-26, 08:00
Custom title here

Post: #361 of 862
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 hours
Last view: 2 hours
Posted by wertigon
Installing this kind of non-sanctioned script also comes with a certain measure of risk, since it in theory could be developed or taken over by unscrupulous russian hackers trying to gain access to your computer and thus installing backdoors. I deem the risk as quite likely in fact, but to each to their own.

Not a script. It is a modified Win Ten installation image.


And then the site's footer says

"Legal Notice

By downloading any of these images, you agree to Microsoft’s Terms of Service with respect to (5.) Authorized Software and Activation. All Images have been rudimentarily activated using a Generic Key for Windows 10 Pro N RTM. By using any of these images you agree that you have obtained a genuine product key or are able to activate by an other authorized method. "

as though that actually changes anything. It is the 24-hour rule all over again.

--- In UTF-16, where available. ---
Posted on 19-03-26, 08:43
Full mod

Post: #182 of 394
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 24 days
Last view: 1 day
I didn't know what a "generic key" was, so I looked it up.

Windows has always asked for a key at install time, but originally it wasn't checked, and later it *was* checked but you could skip it and get a 60-day "trial". Apparently Microsoft got sick of people abusing this to get Windows for "free" and has started requiring a valid key at install time.

But there are valid use-cases for the 60-day trial, so there's a set of well-known "generic keys" that will be accepted by the installer, but only give you a 60-day trial instead of full activation, just like it always was, but more complex and annoying.

This kind of thing makes me sad. :(

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 19-03-26, 09:29
Custom title here

Post: #362 of 862
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 hours
Last view: 2 hours
Yeah. I had to look that up too.

I miss the days when you just stuffed the disk(s) in the drive and ran with it. An MS-DOS/Win3.1 install was merely time-consuming.

(I believe the "skip online activation for two months" thing was originally because people installing XP weren't actually guaranteed to have a usable internet connection available at time of install.)

--- In UTF-16, where available. ---
Posted on 19-03-26, 10:33
Not from my cellphone

Post: #225 of 660
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 1 day
Last view: 2 hours
Windows 95 did asked for a key at setup, but it accepted literally anything. Mash any random number sequence in, don't care as the installer will accept it happily. But that was the last major exception. IIRC anything starting at Office 97/Visual Studio 6 will refuse to install without a valid key.

Fun fact: "1111111" is a valid key for Visual Studio 6 Enterprise. Yes, seven straight ones.

Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free
Posted on 19-03-26, 10:46
Custom title here

Post: #364 of 862
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 hours
Last view: 2 hours
Is that all versions of 95, or just the retail edition? Because god damn, that's something to make me prefer OSR2 over 98SE.

--- In UTF-16, where available. ---
Posted on 19-03-26, 11:19 (revision 4)
Post: #162 of 350
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 5 days
Last view: 1 hour
I think it was like that for every release including the only competently working version, the OEM release.

AMD Ryzen 3700X | MSI Gamer Geforce 1070Ti 8GB | 16GB 3600MHz DDR4 RAM | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | Windows 10 x64
Pages: First Previous 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Last
Main » Discussion » Monocultures in Linux and browsers (formerly "Windows 10")
you need to wake up michael