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Posted on 19-03-12, 18:14 (revision 1)
Not from my cellphone

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So... here I am, after surviving what it was probably the worst blackout I've seen in my 32 years of life (but I highly suspect it won't be the worst). Almost 96 hours without power (yay rotten expensive food~ Also, trivial things like recharging a battery or getting access to ice become true survival wars), water (thankfully my underground water tank was full), and telcos (for you Javashit devs: ever wondered how it feels to live off the grid? Then come to Soviet Venezuela).

Yes, my DSL is still broken.

And sadly, commies have won this time. Noone in the world gives a flying fuck about us Venezuelans, and why would anyone care? Your trade wars, Brexits and Teslas are far more interesting topics than people dying on a random hellhole which most can't locate in a map. We DID deserve this, for all our egoist, selfish, and nearly homicidal decisions in the last half century.

Anyway, feel free to talk about politics and other shits -- most likely I won't be monitoring this thread for too long, probably after the next blackout... which could be permanent.

Relevant coverage: https://netblocks.org/reports/slow-recovery-as-venezuela-power-outage-approaches-4th-day-GXADaLBg
(No coverage on Slashdot? Not surprising, as I've said: we're not important for anyone in the world)

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Posted on 19-03-12, 18:32
Post: #16 of 60
Since: 10-29-18

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I've been trying to keep up with the happenings down there, but as you said, it's hard to find info about it here. The noise-to-signal ratio is too high... Good luck, stay safe.
Posted on 19-03-12, 18:34
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In France, this is quite covered by the news. I can't say I really have the grasp of your situation, as I am not sure of the direction the reports are biased towards, but we have everyday news of Venezuela and each day, I think of you, hoping you are OK.

Your rant was intense but short, so I am still anxious fort you.
Posted on 19-03-12, 18:51

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Yeah, it’s all over the national news here in the U.S. even crazy Trump has called out Maduro and is trying to get aid in and diplomats out.

Speculation says the regime may have deliberately caused the blackout to prevent info about Guaido and opposition from spreading. Even if not, it would be complete negligence and mismanagement, so the regime is still to blame.
Posted on 19-03-12, 19:17
Stirrer of Shit
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I don't follow the news that much, and I still heard about it. I'm no expert, but I think definitely things are going to happen there. For better or for worse, it might turn out like Libya or Syria. But it also might turn out like Tunisia, or somewhere in between.

Probably, they are not reporting on it that much since the blackout is over. But during the blackout (e.g. the period of time you couldn't read news), it was big news.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're okay.
Posted by BearOso

Speculation says the regime may have deliberately caused the blackout to prevent info about Guaido and opposition from spreading. Even if not, it would be complete negligence and mismanagement, so the regime is still to blame.

Why, though? You're cutting off your nose to spite the face, no? It'd have to be an almost cartoonish evil. Why not just cut the phone lines, if that was the goal? Why carry out the single action most likely to increase resentment against the already unpopular government, short of outright Arab Spring-style protester shootings?
Think, man. It could for sure have been an accident, that seems the most likely. But if you're going to trade in conspiracy theories, at least the other side makes somewhat more sense.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-12, 20:19

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Posted by sureanem

Why, though? You're cutting off your nose to spite the face, no? It'd have to be an almost cartoonish evil. Why not just cut the phone lines, if that was the goal? Why carry out the single action most likely to increase resentment against the already unpopular government, short of outright Arab Spring-style protester shootings?

Most regimes aren't completely homogeneous, and there might be little control the leader has with regards to goings-on on the ground. It's completely possible someone from the ranks panicked and took independent action, without completely seeing the big picture and the repercussions of their actions. It might also be possible someone from an internal faction is positioning themselves for a takeover.

Of course it can simply due to an accident, but politics is so cutthroat (sometimes literally), and I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't an accident.

I still have no idea what I'm talking about.
Posted on 19-03-12, 21:39

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I'm guessing the major slowdown of your Internet wasn't a coincidence, then. Man, this really blows. I shudder at the thought of what's going to happen next.
Posted on 19-03-12, 22:37 (revision 1)
Custom title here

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Very glad you mad it through, tomman.
Nothin' I can do to help, but I worry about you.


Posted by sureanem
I don't follow the news that
Why, though? You're cutting off your nose to spite the face, no? It'd have to be an almost cartoonish evil.

Welcome to Venezuela, population WTF.

Seriously, you're talking about a leader that once engineered a toilet paper shortage to punish people for the opposition's popularity. Inept cartoon villainy is his stock in trade.

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Posted on 19-03-13, 00:27 (revision 1)
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Posted by KoiMaxx

Most regimes aren't completely homogeneous, and there might be little control the leader has with regards to goings-on on the ground. It's completely possible someone from the ranks panicked and took independent action, without completely seeing the big picture and the repercussions of their actions. It might also be possible someone from an internal faction is positioning themselves for a takeover.

Of course it can simply due to an accident, but politics is so cutthroat (sometimes literally), and I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't an accident.

Wasn't it across most of the country?

Sure, it is possible. But I find it much more reasonable that either
a) a third world country in free fall has some blackouts, and this one was longer than usual
or
b) the US did it as a step in toppling the regime

For instance, how is the thought process like? If you panic and cut the power, sure, but why leave it that way for three days? And if it's for a takeover, it can't be very internal.

In other Venezuela news:

Venezuela no longer has an aluminum industry

Today Venezuela basically crossed off an entire industry. In one day. No more industrial aluminum production. Just like that. It’s gone.


#8Mar CVG #Venalum just died. A reducing plant aluminum, model for Latin America, had 59 reduction cells and with the collapse of Guri lost tension in the 4 trilineas of 115 KV. Cells are turned off and once they are turned off, they are lost.


They had to shut off the cells at the Venalum plant meaning that all the molten metal solidified in the equipment. Basically it destroyed all the equipment because they had no power.
when this happens, you lose the cell, it cannot be recovered...
They had already lost some of the cells in previous blackouts but they lost all of the remaining ones yesterday, it’s a catastrophic shutdown

In the only possible optimistic perspective I can think of, between 2006 and 2017, Venezuela's aluminum exports decreased by 90% from $1.4B to $144M. In other words, most of that which could go wrong at this point already had, and this is in comparison a minor loss.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-13, 03:16 (revision 2)
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Posted by sureanem

b) the US did it as a step in toppling the regime

If the US was trying to take out Venezuela, we would've DONE IT by now. The country's problems are genuinely self-inflicted, and fairly well-documented as such.
Also, the CIA probably wanted the aluminum equipment intact and usable.

Their dictator-in-chief is an inept, ham-fisted, and violent buffoon and his clumsy attempts to manipulate the mood of the people are doing more damage to his position than the CIA ever could.



According to the Venezuelan government, the blackout was an act of sabotage masterminded by the opposition leader, which is standard practice for Maduro. Every time anything goes wrong, it is the opposition's fiendish plan to destroy the country and sell it to the capitalist pigdogs. And every time something goes right for the opposition, Maduro makes sure something goes wrong in the country.

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Posted on 19-03-13, 06:46 (revision 2)

Post: #60 of 166
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We had a 3-4 hours blackout around that time -first one this winter, but, yeah, obviously I'd take that any time over what's happening in Venezuela...All I can really say is try to stay safe and hang on until the situation gets less shitty.
Posted on 19-03-13, 12:43
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Posted by CaptainJistuce

If the US was trying to take out Venezuela, we would've DONE IT by now. The country's problems are genuinely self-inflicted, and fairly well-documented as such.
Also, the CIA probably wanted the aluminum equipment intact and usable.

Their dictator-in-chief is an inept, ham-fisted, and violent buffoon and his clumsy attempts to manipulate the mood of the people are doing more damage to his position than the CIA ever could.

According to the Venezuelan government, the blackout was an act of sabotage masterminded by the opposition leader, which is standard practice for Maduro. Every time anything goes wrong, it is the opposition's fiendish plan to destroy the country and sell it to the capitalist pigdogs. And every time something goes right for the opposition, Maduro makes sure something goes wrong in the country.


That's definitely possible. On the other hand, if you want to get really conspiratorial, "America did it" is the go-to excuse for any third world dictator. So even if America really did it, whoever says that would not be taken seriously.

Take this, for instance. Anyone who claims that the Israeli intelligence stole their shoe sounds legitimately insane. Thus, if they did want to discredit someone, it's a waterproof plan.

As for toppling the government, it's not only a matter of might. They would have to get the necessary preconditions to be able to get enough popular support for their candidate, which they don't really have right now. Maduro has an approval rating of 21%, which is low, but not terribly low. Around the end of their terms, Nixon and Bush Jr. had approval ratings hovering around 25%. The president of France, Emmanuel Macron, currently has a similar approval rating. But just because of that, it doesn't mean that most of their subjects would support a military removal of them from power.

Venezuelans want President Maduro out, but most would oppose foreign military intervention to remove him

Would Venezuelans support foreign military intervention?

My research in Venezuela suggests otherwise.

All credible polling in Venezuela says that most Venezuelans desperately want Maduro out. But that does not necessarily mean they are open to desperate measures.

In November 2018, I worked with Datanálisis, one of Venezuela’s most respected polling companies, to add several questions about about military intervention and potential negotiations to its nationwide tracking poll.

When asked whether they would support “a foreign military intervention to remove President Maduro from his position,” only 35 percent said yes — hardly the warm welcome predicted by advocates. More than half — 54 percent — would reject such an operation.


Regarding the aluminum plant, it's not worth that much compared to the oil and the risk of having Cuba 2.0 in the US' back yard. To destroy an entire industry of a country, leaving lots of people down the chain unemployed, will hurt the state far more than what it would cost to later rebuild it.
As far as cost is concerned, the investment cost for new aluminium production facilities is between €4000 and €5000 per tonne of production capacity per year. At the maximum capacity of 430 000 tonnes a year, that's approximately $2.2B of equipment lost.

Venezuela's failings look a lot like those of some Arab nations

I'm not supporting Maduro, but you need to be able to have two thoughts in your head at the same time. Just because he is bad, doesn't mean that absolutely everything that goes wrong in Venezuela is orchestrated by him. And just because he has mismanaged the economy in the past, doesn't mean that specific incidents now couldn't be caused by foreign actors.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-13, 22:12
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Just sayin' he has a track record here.

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Posted on 19-03-14, 14:37 (revision 2)
Stirrer of Shit
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So does America.


Map of regime change actions undertaken by the United States
Red: United States
Dark green: Coups and regime change actions
Light green: Election interference
Blue: Territories annexed by the US following regime change actions and invasions

Edit: this map doesn't even include all of them. I was going to write out a list but it would be too much work. Former SU, Arab World, most of Europe (interference only), and various Asian countries.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-14, 14:40

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> Russia

Into the trash it goes.
Posted on 19-03-14, 15:15 (revision 1)
Stirrer of Shit
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War

Severely short of troops to spare, the British and French requested that President Wilson provide American soldiers for the campaign. In July 1918, against the advice of the United States Department of War, Wilson agreed to the limited participation of 5,000 United States Army troops in the campaign. This force, which became known as the "American North Russia Expeditionary Force"[15] (a.k.a. the Polar Bear Expedition) were sent to Arkhangelsk while another 8,000 soldiers, organised as the American Expeditionary Force Siberia,[16] were shipped to Vladivostok from the Philippines and from Camp Fremont in California.



There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-14, 17:44 (revision 1)
Not from my cellphone

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sureanam, please stop posting such BS to this thread, you're starting to sound like anewuser (which surprisingly has yet to post his pro-soviet, er, "I listen to both parties" crapola)

Maduro is a murderer, full stop. He doesn't deserve to flee in a plane just like many dictators have done in the past. Jail would be too good for him. He has to DIE, and his organs and limbs spread around all the Bolivar Plazas in the country.

Also fuck the opposition too, they're a bunch of leeches good for nothing that still believe in "peaceful exits" that will never happen.

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Posted on 19-03-14, 19:57
Stirrer of Shit
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No, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that the current government is any good. All I'm saying is that from here it looks identical to a US color revolution, just like in the Arab Spring. And most of those countries are arguably worse off now than they were before the revolutions.
Most likely, you'll get your wish. But be careful what you wish for.

Take Libya, for instance:

After coming to power, the RCC government took control of all petroleum companies operating in the country and initiated a process of directing funds toward providing education, health care and housing for all. Despite the reforms not being entirely effective, public education in the country became free and primary education compulsory for both sexes. Medical care became available to the public at no cost, but providing housing for all was a task that the government was not able to complete.[6] Under Gaddafi, per capita income in the country rose to more than US$11,000, the fifth-highest in Africa.[7] The increase in prosperity was accompanied by a controversial foreign policy and increased political repression at home.[5][8]

Sound familiar?

Muammar Gaddafi, the deposed leader of Libya, was captured and killed on 20 October 2011 during the Battle of Sirte. Gaddafi was found hiding in a culvert west of Sirte and captured by National Transitional Council forces. He was killed shortly afterwards. The NTC initially claimed he died from injuries sustained in a firefight when loyalist forces attempted to free him, although a graphic video of his last moments show rebel fighters beating him and one of them sodomizing him with a bayonet[2] before he was shot several times as he pleaded for his life.[3]


The interim Libyan authorities decided to keep Gaddafi's body "for a few days", NTC oil minister Ali Tarhouni said, "to make sure that everybody knows he is dead."[30] The body was moved to an industrial freezer where members of the public were permitted to view it [31] until 24 October.[32] Video shows Gaddafi's body on display in the center of an emptied public freezer in Misrata.[33] Some people traveled hundreds of kilometres to see proof that Gaddafi was dead; one said, "God made the pharaoh as an example to the others. If he had been a good man, we would have buried him. But he chose this destiny for himself."[34] One reporter observed gunshot residue on the wounds, consistent with shots at close range.[19]

They didn't spread his organs out, but they did put him on public display in an industrial freezer after sodomizing him with a bayonet and executing him. So I would say it is close enough to what you want.

And where is Libya now? Are they better or worse off than before they toppled the dictator? Was it worth it?

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-03-14, 22:47

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Except in this case there's no organized militarized rebellion. There's no rebel fighters, the opposition is pacifist. The US is only denouncing Maduro and attempting to provide supplies for the general population. There's no incentive to invade except humanitarianism. Since you're hinting toward this angle: the oil supplies aren't needed and aren't sufficient. Mismanagement and stupidity, not especially tyranny, are ruining the country.
Posted on 19-03-14, 23:01
Not from my cellphone

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I do get your point, but that's the same excuse that everybody and his dog is using to do nothing ("we must stay aside" - that's not like the '80s USA which was willing to get rid of commie pigs far less dangerous than Maduro - the current one only worries about TERRIRISM™ and doesn't give a fuck about what happens to us because we aren't a threat to anybody but ourselves, and all we got from the international community is token acts which really don't help us at all), which clearly is a unsustainable position in the short run. As I've just said: the next blackout likely will be permanent and most of us will not survive the ensuing chaos.

While we get that we are likely to repeat the same errors if we get rid of Maduro (and trust me: it will happen because 90% of the Venezuelans are complete and absolute morons; the other 10% are waiting its turn to take advantage of the situation to satisfy their own personal agendas), we STILL may have hope of actually getting back into the rails. Venezuela isn't exactly an Arab hellhole full of hateful people willing to kill between themselves (YET!), but if we let this shit continue without an effective and HARD solution, we might as well become one, and if that happens, well... all bets are off. America only has room for one Cuba, not two.

Remember: we are also becoming the next drug cartel haven too. Mexican mafias don't really like the competition...

If Venezuelans are dumb enough to let another commie asshole to fuck us hard in the ass, well, it's time to send the nukes. There are too many countries in the world, noone will miss a tiny piece of desolated land in their next Geography quiz.

I've lost all hopes at this point. I don't even want to talk at my family anymore (it's split between "I don't care about you anymore", "Maduro will leave the power in the next 3 days, BE POSITIVE!!!" and a lone communistoid that still defends the ill-fated actions of the regime). I've developed a state of anxiety that I never expected to have in my life. I don't even have a outlet to express my frustrations anymore (much less with my faulty DSL which will never -and I repeat, NEVER- get repaired)... except for this messageboard, and even I understand that out of all places, this is not the best place for it.

OH FUCK, POLITICS REALLY PISS ME OFF!!! Politics destroyed my career, disbanded my family and friends, nuked my incomes, are leaving me to starve to death while I fight with this brokenass laptop that didn't even wanted to turn on after 4 days of being without power, and definitely have pretty much ruined my life, my hopes and dreams, and my expectations for the future.

No matter the outcome of all this, I'll never have respect for anyone engaging into a politics career anymore in my life.

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