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| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 19-05-28, 14:52
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Derpy is best pony
 Post: #233 of 599 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 195 days Last view: 4 hours |
Errors and warnings. Pragma directives to suppress a warning take those codes so localized compilers can disable the right items. |
| Duck Penis |
Posted on 19-05-28, 19:57 (revision 1)
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Stirrer of Shit
Post: #330 of 717 Since: 01-26-19 Last post: 1763 days Last view: 1761 days |
Posted by tomman I'm not even English, but it is empirically true it is the only language that matters (other than Russian or Chinese, possibly). I have nothing against subs/dubs, although I've never watched a dubbed movie/TV show that wasn't a children's cartoon in my entire life, and I'd only watch something subtitled in my native language in the cinema - why spend several hours looking for poorly translated subtitles on shady websites, when I can just use the ordinary English subtitles made by competent translators? But this is just a personal opinion. Nothing wrong with translating movies into Swahili, as long as I'm not the one paying for it. What I however DO have something against is the completely pointless localization of stuff that gets shoved down your throat. FWIW, I distinctly remember the Visual Studio we used in school as being in English while the rest of the OS wasn't. Maybe they had the good sense to change it back, or Microsoft had the good sense to not burn cash on translating it, but anyhow that was in good ol' American English, as all software should be. Other Englishes are fine too, and I can hardly tell the difference anyway. I never liked those numeric pragmas. I might be clinically insane, but it's a hell of a lot clearer, at least to me, to figure out what "#define _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS" means than to guess at the meaning of "#pragma warning(disable: 4996)". Specifically for programming languages, why would you want them? You have to understand English anyway, since that's what the keywords are in, and even if you have mnemonics for those all the library functions will be in English, at least in theory. (strncpy isn't really English, but nor is it not English, and it certainly isn't some other language). At least they could just put one define for each language. It's still easier to figure out the meaning of _CRT_SEGURO_NO_ADVERTENCIAS than 4996. I suppose it's a shame if there are collisions. They'd have to tell their translators to not do that, or namespace the foreign strings, yielding something baroque like _ES_CRT_SEGURO_NO_ADVERTENCIAS. Still better than 4996. In fact, I would prefer it if they picked a language completely at random, even if it weren't English, and replaced the numeric warnings with that. At least you can memorize the meaning of _CRT_SALAMA_HAKUNA_ONYO, and you already got one of the three words down if you watched the Lion King as a child, which is more than you can say for 4996. EDIT: Nope, Microsoft just didn't bother translating Visual Studio (or at least not VS code, but should be the same) into my language. They did translate the website, and it's absolutely atrocious. It's not grammatically incorrect, but whoever did it is not a talented translator, that's for sure. Extremely odd phrasings which would make sense in English, sprinkled with somewhat archaic formalities. In their defense, the English version is not much better: Stay on top of the details as you move your project forward, with new debugging improvements including Autos, Locals, and Watch window search, better performance, and a Collections visualizer. drive code maintainability and fix errors, warnings, and suggestions with one-click code clean-up and new refactoring capabilities. A document health indicator will help you identify issues, so you can get your code “to green.” How many errors can you find in the above passage? There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this. |
| tomman |
Posted on 19-05-28, 21:45 (revision 1)
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Dinosaur
 Post: #361 of 1315 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 58 days Last view: 18 hours |
Eh, I'll take error codes over localized incomprehensible strings always. But no matter if you go with errors or identifiers, the important bit is to actually document your shit. It's no fun to get a "Code 8C09000F" or "E_NOT_A_FROBULATOR_COMBUSTOR" if you go to The Fine Manual to find a one-liner that tells you absolutely nothing... or even worse, a 404 Not Found! Microsoft is particularly nasty at this. Posted by sureanem Sounds like the typical marketing drivel you get nowadays to me, which is meaningless by design. In other words, noise. Who cares if it has a bunch of grammar/spelling errors on it? Sane people will turn their heads elsewhere, while CxOs will orgasm while synergizing their entropies and opening their corporate checkbooks wide open. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| Duck Penis |
Posted on 19-05-28, 23:27
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Stirrer of Shit
Post: #332 of 717 Since: 01-26-19 Last post: 1763 days Last view: 1761 days |
At least you can try and find out what a frobolator combustor is by means of arcane Google queries. No such dice for 8C09000F. Assuming they prioritize marketing drivel above actual software (probable) the translation of the software would be even worse than that of the marketing drivel. Except for no-name no-budget China products, where I have no expectations whatsoever, I do expect for my software to have competently written text. I'm not demanding any eloquent prose, and if you can cut the message in half by playing fast and loose with the grammar that's fine ("load file %s failed: disk error"), but it angers and disgusts me to see "translations" where it's apparent the "translator"'s idea of "good" is "you can understand it, so what's the problem?". I do speak English, so there is no need to pretend I don't and give me a watered-down version of the product. And since all educated people speak English, and only educated people use computers for (technologically) productive purposes, there is no need to ever waste money on this crap outside of, say, smartphone apps and websites for uneducated people. I would understand the need to localize Word and such, since occasionally kids, shopkeepers, etc might use it, but why a bloody programming tool? Either you're self-taught, in which case you speak English, or you learned it in school, in which case you went to school, and thus speak English. There's no scenario in which someone learns, say, C#, without first learning English. Maybe in Spanish there are perfect translations for everything, but unless you have the good fortune to belong to a major linguistic group you're better off keeping everything in English. And even if this were the case, I would still argue localization of technical software is harmful as it cuts you off from the wider world. inb4 preserve your cultural heritage and the independence of your national software industry- The chips are American, the software is American, just what point is there to making life difficult for yourself and everyone else? Fine if AMD were Chinese and had a whole different ecosystem around it, then it might indeed be reasonable to use Chinese there, but as it is now it's just a painful nuisance that needs to go away. It's not as if American companies being English-only has saved their software industry's independence, is it? Or on the converse, as if Europe develops any less software than they would if their developers would be using their native languages. Jeff Atwood has a quite sickening outlook on life, but in this matter he's actually right: https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-ugly-american-programmer/ There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this. |
| tomman |
Posted on 19-05-29, 02:15
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Dinosaur
Post: #362 of 1315 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 58 days Last view: 18 hours |
> Jeff Atwood Fuck that guy too, he is the asshole that came up with Discourse, "you're on mobile? that's different!" and "gamification of message boards". To me his opinion is as worthless as a bag of moldy bread. I'll always prefer using my software in Spanish whenever possible, developing software in my native language, and keep contributing with localizations when it's at my reach. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| Duck Penis |
Posted on 19-05-29, 14:12 (revision 1)
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Stirrer of Shit
Post: #334 of 717 Since: 01-26-19 Last post: 1763 days Last view: 1761 days |
He's the stereotype of "soulless Silicon Valley programmer". On the other hand, he made Stack Overflow, so I'd say it evens out. But yes, fuck Disco EDIT: What do you get if you take away the o from Discourse? There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this. |
| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 19-05-29, 17:56
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Draco in Hotpants
Post: #234 of 599 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 195 days Last view: 4 hours |
Posted by sureanemhttps://github.com/search?q=abxd |
| Duck Penis |
Posted on 19-05-29, 21:23
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Stirrer of Shit
Post: #336 of 717 Since: 01-26-19 Last post: 1763 days Last view: 1761 days |
Posted by Kawa ABXD is very nice, but I don't think it scales that well. It definitely is the best open-source forum software for small boards that don't need those features however, insofar as it is open-source. There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this. |
| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 19-05-29, 21:30
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TV Troper
Post: #235 of 599 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 195 days Last view: 4 hours |
Posted by sureanemI stopped reading at this point. Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. |
| tomman |
Posted on 19-05-29, 21:42
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Dinosaur
Post: #364 of 1315 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 58 days Last view: 18 hours |
Posted by sureanem When I hear "scale", all I understand is "Javascript hipsters" and "hyperconverged computing". In other words, more noise. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| Duck Penis |
Posted on 19-05-29, 21:55
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Stirrer of Shit
Post: #337 of 717 Since: 01-26-19 Last post: 1763 days Last view: 1761 days |
Posted by tomman No, I mean it in the absolute literal sense of handling many people/posts. If you want high performance, just rewrite it in C (or Rust if you're scared of pointers) and get >100x better performance than Node/PHP, the real challenge is the humans. Stuff like thread subscriptions/quote notification, guest posting, image uploads, thread previews, and such. Without those, it just devolves into complete chaos and a shouting match given enough users. Reddit is a great example of how this eventually happens. There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this. |
| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 19-05-29, 22:23
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Loves the whole world and all its' sights and sounds
Post: #236 of 599 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 195 days Last view: 4 hours |
"just rewrite in C" Except for the missing # that's almost an idea I already entertained years ago. |
| Duck Penis |
Posted on 19-05-29, 22:33
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Stirrer of Shit
Post: #338 of 717 Since: 01-26-19 Last post: 1763 days Last view: 1761 days |
Why C#? There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this. |
| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 19-05-29, 22:34
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Now then, let's have a nice naked talk.
Post: #237 of 599 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 195 days Last view: 4 hours |
Cos I like it. |
| tomman |
Posted on 19-05-29, 23:49
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Dinosaur
Post: #365 of 1315 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 58 days Last view: 18 hours |
So all message boards must scale because they COULD have as many users as Fecesbook or Reddit someday. That's an... interesting rationale. And by "interesting", I mean completely nuts. As much as PHP is the fractal of bad design, there is nothing wrong with message board platforms like ABXD, phpBB or SMF for small boards like this one, or somewhat bigger boards with a couple hundred active users shitposting every hour. Not everything has to be BIG or fancy, y'know. It's like quoting a customer for a Cray supercomputer if all they need is something to host their HR/payroll app for their 3 users making paychecks for 250 employees. An supermaket Lenovo/HP shitbox will do the job just fine. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 19-05-30, 00:36
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May contain nuts
Post: #238 of 599 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 195 days Last view: 4 hours |
Imagine, an ABXD with |
| Duck Penis |
Posted on 19-05-30, 08:43
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Stirrer of Shit
Post: #339 of 717 Since: 01-26-19 Last post: 1763 days Last view: 1761 days |
Posted by tomman You're right in that this would be a completely insane line of reasoning, but I have never said that. Posted by sureanem Posted by sureanem 92 users is far from enough. Even 9200 won't do the trick. I'm talking ~1 million or more. One post per minute or more, something like that. For such forums, there is no good FOSS software. There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this. |
| CaptainJistuce |
Posted on 19-05-30, 09:44
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Custom title here
 Post: #478 of 1164 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 63 days Last view: 9 hours |
Posted by Kawa That's when a quarter of the community leaves to post on a shard board started by someone with an axe to grind, right? --- In UTF-16, where available. --- |
| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 19-05-30, 11:10
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Secretly, I'm byuu
Post: #239 of 599 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 195 days Last view: 4 hours |
That's almost the ABXD origin story. |
| Screwtape |
Posted on 19-06-07, 11:14
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Full mod
 Post: #269 of 443 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 1101 days Last view: 172 days |
Posted by sureanem The thing is, humans hate change, and they are also very, very good at inventing reasonable-sounding justifications for however they happen to feel at any given moment. When some kind of change is announced, it's a safe bet that 90% of the response will boil down to "I hate change" with creative variations. As such, the actual comments themselves are unnecessary; the only interesting information is whether the reactions are significantly more or less than the expected 90% of the total volume. The signals for "this response is not knee-jerk reaction" are things like: longer than average (but not too long), tidy paragraphs instead of sprawling run-on sentences, maybe some formatting like lists and headings, basically anything that indicates the author spent time thinking about the reader instead of scrawling the hottest take they could. None of those things require close reading or empathetic consideration. It's possible some useful and interesting responses get accidentally scooped up with the unhelpful ones, but nothing is ever perfect. As for deleting or at least hiding such comments, if someone is serious about listening to interesting feedback, they'll want to come back and re-read that feedback, and show it to other people. That's a lot easier without the unhelpful distractions, even if only because they don't have to scroll so far. The point is that there's a conflict between the idea of theming, which requires a rigidly-defined list of standard widgets, and the idea that application authors should be allowed to customise widgets or invent new ones if they think it's appropriate. The design of GNOME's desktop (or any desktop) or GNOME's default theme (or any theme) or GNOME's theme API (or any theme API) are not relevant to the discussion, because this conflict has affected every desktop based on every GUI toolkit. It's literally impossible to have a theme so perfect that everybody likes it; the best you can hope for is a theme good enough that changing it is more trouble than it's worth. I'm pretty sure it's also impossible to have a theme so ugly that everybody hates it; Amiga Workbench 1.0 and Windows 1.0 didn't immediately doom their respective product lines. A widget toolkit with a theme engine makes some things awesome and some things terrible; a widget toolkit that can't easily be themed (like macOS and Windows have) keeps everything mediocre. Is that better? Maybe? Sometimes? I'm guessing that the distros' default themes aren't exactly crazy, just making shoddy applications look a bit wonkier than on the dev's machine. On sane DEs like Xfce, I have zero issues of this kind, which makes me think the real issue is that they don't want users to be able to "damage" their precious branding. More likely, Xfce's default theme is close enough to boring grey-and-blue Adwaita that it doesn't cause any problems. Some Linux vendors have much bolder branding, say in brown and orange, and just to stand out they do unusual things like have menus and toolbars in light-on-dark while the rest of the application is dark-on-light. GTK+3's theme engine I guess doesn't make it easy to have wildly different colour-schemes for different parts of the window, so themes that want to do that have to add a bunch of custom rules to tweak each supported application... but there's no way to limit a particular rule to a particular application. So if a standard GNOME app happens to name one of its toolbar widgets "switcher", the Linux vendor theme says "widgets named 'switcher' use light-coloured text". Then a third-party app happens to also use the name "switcher" for some other widget that's *not* in the toolbar, so it winds up with light text on a light background. > There's absolutely no need to start whining about this, when you could just not implement the feature if it breaks your obscure widgets. You do realise that application authors and GTK's maintainers are different people, right? > Unicode was a mistake, and it just keeps getting worse and worse (emoji, RTL, Chinese characters breaking BMP). The Europeans already had ISO 8859-1, the Russians KOI8-R, and for the web there was HTML entities. Since everyone who uses the Internet speaks English anyway, computer localization is just a waste of time and money and unpleasant for generally everybody. It would be far easier if you knew that everything everywhere would be en-US, no surprises. To go from "I do not need this thing" to "None of the six billion humans on the planet needs this thing" is quite a feat of extrapolation. Does it genuinely not occur to you that if you don't understand a thing, maybe you just haven't yet encountered the problem it solves? > In fact, I would prefer it if they picked a language completely at random, even if it weren't English, and replaced the numeric warnings with that. At least you can memorize the meaning of _CRT_SALAMA_HAKUNA_ONYO, and you already got one of the three words down if you watched the Lion King as a child, which is more than you can say for 4996. Not strictly relevant to the point under discussion, but I do want to point out PHP's famous "expected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM" error. > It's a damn shame there isn't any good open-source forum software. GNU Mailman and INN say hi. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. |
