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| BearOso | Yeah, looks like all the chiplets share a memory controller. But each chiplet has its own L3 cache, so core pinning is needed for optimum performance when more than one is used. |
| Sintendo | That's what I thought. AFAIK NUMA does not apply to any of the regular Ryzen CPUs, only Threadripper/Epyc. |
| Screwtape |
I don't think so. "inter-core" sounds like cores talking to each other, but NUMA (Non-Uniform Memory Architecture) is about cores talking to RAM. There's a limit to the number of cores you can have connected to the same memory controller, so they don't spend all their time waiting in a queue to access memory. To solve that problem, you can have multiple memory controllers, but if a core connected to controller A needs to read from a RAM chip connected to controller B, there's an extra communication delay involved. Linux' NUMA support lets you pin a process to a particular memory controller (and all the cores attached to it) as well as pinning a process to a particular CPU, which is handy if you need to guarantee every memory access will be fast. However, it does mean your process can run out of RAM even if there's plenty of room on the other controller. |
| Sintendo | Are NUMA and inter-core data latency the same thing? |
| BearOso | As I was saying above, Zen 2 uses chiplets containing 2 CCX units sharing I/O, and it shouldn’t need NUMA if you have only one. It’s much closer to an 8-core CPU than 2 4-cores. I don’t know if adding more chiplets still needs NUMA like Zen 1, but probably. |
| Nicholas Steel |
Posted by funkyass Huh, my previous googling attempts only found a wccftech article which indicated it was a single 8 cores for the 8 core CPU's. This time I included the word "arrangement" in my search and got a twitter result confirming it is 4 cores per CCX for the 8 core variants. Ah well, so I've effectively got 2 really powerful 4 Core CPU's. |
| creaothceann | relevant LTT video just went up |
| funkyass | a CCX is 4 cores. |
| Nicholas Steel |
Posted by BearOso Yeah I noticed the difference G-Sync made for the game back when I briefly had such a display. I don't want to deal with any performance issues that can arise when a game/program traverses multiple CCX's which will only become more likely as time continues, and the 3700X (is there a 3700?) is the lowest end AMD CPU that meets the criteria. Iirc Microsoft still doesn't have a good CPU Scheduler for handling AMD's CCX design, they've been shoehorning things in to the existing system rather than coming up with something like what various Linux distros apparently use. |
| wertigon |
Posted by BearOso - RAM prices, I agree it's worth to stretch for the 3600MHz RAM - if your motherboard can support it. - Motherboard, the MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX has enough VRM performance to handle the 3700X for sure (though may not be fit for overclocking). Feature comparison of the different chipsets: * B450 - PCIe 3.0, USB 3.1, max RAM speed 3466 MHz * X470 - PCIe 3.0, USB 3.1, max RAM speed 3466 MHz, dual GPU full lane support * X570 - PCIe 4.0, USB 3.2, max RAM speed 4666 MHz, dual GPU full lane support Add to that, the x570 is only slightly more expensive than the x470, and the x570 makes more sense. Therefore it's between B450 and X570. Now, if you only need a single expansion card, I'd go with the Asus x570 Crosshair VIII Impact, which allows you to cram two PCIe 4.0 NVMe disks in there, and has the best VRM set on the market right now as well as a lot of other support. At $430, it's steep, but it will be well worth it since this board can handle everything you will ever throw at it including extreme overclocking, and still cost less than the fullblown Crosshair VIII Hero. But if you do not plan on overclocking and try your best to melt your CPU into a puddle of silicon and glorious metal, go with the MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX. As for CPUs, the 3700X is not a bad CPU, but it will not do much more for you if your goal is to game, we're talking a 2%-3% performance increase for $200. If the main purpose is gaming plus streaming plus compiling stuff, then yes, the 3700X is awesome, and I wish I had one as a developer. :) Posted by creaothceann True, but it costs quite a bit more AND require watercooling. |
| creaothceann |
Posted by BearOso You might just be able replace it with a passive cooler :) EDIT: The Gigabyte X570 Aorus Xtreme and the ASRock X570 Aqua (90-MXBAZ0-A0UAYZ) don't have chipset fans. They're "a bit" more pricy though... |
| CaptainJistuce | I ripped all the fans off and dropped my board in a bucket full of mineral oil. Airflow is for chumps. |
| BearOso |
Posted by funkyass I read somewhere that, depending on the OEM, they might not run unless you stress the PCIe bus. Maybe it’s not even on. I’m obsessive about noise, though. Knowing my luck, I’d end up with one that ran constantly with a high pitch. |
| funkyass | I barely hear the x570 chipset fan on my MB as in the only fan I hear is my 1060 |
| BearOso |
Given his post history, I think he’d be happier with the 3700x. He’s going to want to have the extra single-thread performance. I would have gone for a x470 motherboard because I know the stupid tiny chipset fans on the x570 would annoy me, and the b450’s choke buzzing would be more audible, too. I’m looking at RAM prices, and 16gb 3600MHz is only about $5 more than 3200MHz right now, so the bump is worth it. Posted by Nicholas Steel That’s partly down to Diablo 3’s poor frame pacing. G-sync or freesync will allow it to catch up and stay smooth when Diablo stupidly passes over the vblank interrupt in its timing loop. |
| wertigon |
Would just like to chime in here - I recently upgraded my 2010 era computer to this on Black Friday: Case - Kolink Satellite (~$25) PSU - 400W Corsair (recycled, probably want to replace it soon) Motherboard - Gigabyte B450I Aorus Pro WiFi (~$100) CPU - AMD Ryzen 5 3400G (~$110) RAM - 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200 MHz (~$75) SSD - Kingston A2000 512 GB NVMe gen 3 (~$55) Total price: ~$365 And a similar build for PC Part Picker: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TMR7Rk You want the better rated PSU if you plan on getting a better GPU in the future, and the case is slightly more expensive - rest is down to black friday deals sweetening the cost for me. :) My system runs Linux without a hitch, has 4 cores / 8 threads, I can game perfectly fine on it, and it is in general an awesome budget build. Latest stock Ubuntu (19.10) worked right out of the box, no configuration necessary. Not good enough for 1440p gaming, but 1080p runs pretty good and 720p is great, and I can always upgrade to an RX 5500 XT or 2060 Super later. Heck, the CPU should even be capable of a 5700 XT in theory, though might need an overclock. Simply put, this package is great value for the money right now. :) [edit]Oh and in regards to 3600 vs 3700X - how much do you need two extra cores? If all you do is game, go with the 3600. If you stream or do other CPU intensive stuff, go with the 3700X. There is absolutely no reason to go above 3600 if you are building a Lintendo / Wintendo Playstation :)[/edit] |
| Nicholas Steel |
Yeah I'm going with G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3600MHz RAM, its timings are specifically optimized for the AMD Ryzen platform. I also remembered another reason why I went with the 3700X, all 8 CPU Cores are in a single CCX so there's no inter-CCX Infinity Fabric shenanigans (other than when communicating with RAM?). Edit: I removed my overclock and my old CPU is struggling very, very hard at running Firefox well. Discord within Firefox is laggy, twitch embeds are laggy, Diablo 3 is laggy when a lot is going on xD |
| creaothceann | The L3 cache increase (8 MB to 32 MB) is probably even more important than the instruction sets, especially with AMD. Just make sure you get good RAM for best results - 3600 or even 3733 MHz. |
| Nicholas Steel |
Posted by funkyassIn IPC? Yeah maybe, then you have all the new instruction sets to further bolster performance improvements in various programs. |
| funkyass |
thats right, you are running a first gen i7. the Ryzen 3 3200 is twice as fast... |
