|FK||I'm talking about the one where you can view stuff from the newer SCI games like LSL7 and stuff, wasn't an early version of it ready?|
|CiacioZ||One Year without any news about the progress of the project...I think that sciStudio4 is dead and will never be released :'(|
Look, SCI Studio is not a job, he is not being paid to make it. He does this in his SPARE TIME.|
Just have patience it will be released eventually when it is finished.
And SCI Studio has gone a year before with no releases/updates so get over it. :P
|FK||I'm not asking him to do any more work. I just thought he already had a version already done, that he gave to people who donated money to him. All he would have to do is upload it somewhere, with no programming needed.|
|AGI1122||The version he gave to everybody was NOT done. It could only show you graphics from the later SCI games, it wasn't fully able to edit them and let you create your own games.|
|Kon-Tiki||If I remember correctly, it is almost done. Last time Brian had a major boost of working on it was when he wanted to have something done to show on Tech TV. Maybe these last lines can be finished if he gets the motivation for such a boost again...|
You know, something should be said for the fans of SCI Studio. There's a great community here of very nice and talented people, and everytime someone asks a question about the program, someone else gets bent of of shape and hollers about how "it'll be finished when it's finished." It is really quite unfair to smack down people for asking simple questions. I mean, it isn't an unreasonable question. (I've wondered myself if this project will ever actually be finished.)|
Many people who post here are treated as if they're morons for asking a simple question or two. My point is this; these people are here because they believe in something. Abuse too many of them and it won't matter how wonderful SCI Studio 4 is, because no one will be around to use it.
The problem is not that people ask what's up with it... the problem is that tons of people keep asking. Have a look through this board and you will see so many topics asking this same question over and over and over. They really should either read the board first or use the search feature of the board.|
And what do you want us to say besides it will be finished when it's finished... that's the best way to put it because there is no release date, and he isn't going to set one either unless it's about ready to be released.
Nobody is attacking these users for asking, we just gave the answer to the questions that they asked. These may not be the answers the users wanted to hear, but they are the correct answers.
Nobody is here to pretend the SCI Studio 4 tomorrow, we respect the excellent work of Brian but I think that after so much time the right answear is "the project is halted so probably the next version wont be released". Tell to the people that probably it will be finished someday I think is a bit optimistic ;)|
Look, it is not abandoned so we can't say that. Brian still posts here answering questions.|
But just because he doesn't actually post news on the site about it does not mean nothing is every happening with it. But it also does not mean something is happening with it at the same time.
So the best thing to say is it will be done when it's done... rather than get up hopes when it can't be confirmed what's new yet because of lack of news postings on the site.
Brian has worked on it for I beleive around 4 years, I don't think he would just up and abandon it at this point which is why we say when it's done.
I hope you're right chris :)|
Until then best regards and good work to everyody, See ya 8)
Chris Cromer wrote:
I know, but that's all I wanted.
[Chris Cromer]Removed that last part, that's illegal.[/Chris Cromer]
The other thing I find interesting is that while people keep asking for new versions, there is not that many completed games available.|
I think if people put a lot of their energy into making games as they did waiting for the next version, maybe more quality SCI games would be available. And if *that* happened, maybe a greater impetus would be in place to continually improve products like SCI Studio.
Just a thought.
I agree completely with you Observer.|
And Fk, I modified your message because the last part of it is illegal to do.
The truth is SCI Studio is not a job and Brian do that by hobby so we can't put pressure on that .|
Beside SCI Studio , he has a life which need to live , and it true for all programmers : All of their hobby jobs just be done in weekend , when they had sometime break to do .
I don't know the others , but with me , I had a time just look in assembly code to ;D and for ;D . Must tell you , it's boring and make headache , so I decided to quit it and focus on C++ and Java , which expandable and more interesting . The true point I want to say is : CREATE is easier than REBUILT .
Take an example : A team do a job 50 % , still buggy then quit and boss take another team to continue the job . I don't believe they will bother to read code , fix bug but sure that they just reuse the module if it good , and ready to write a new one if it don't fit with them .
So , don't be dissapoint when you see AGS, AGAST , SLUDGE and other adventure authoring systems are motive , fast and always be release a new version . It just because they are created from draft , not remake / rebuilt from an existing one and require compatibility with it . SCI Studio and FreeSCI are rebuilt with limited like that , they must compatibility with old games , old code when others just need an interface look like old games is ok .
Patient , patient and patient . I have watched SCI development from .. uhhh ...96 , 97 ? And now it looks better than the start , so why I can wait a little time ?
|AGI1122||Actually you could do point and click with the current SCI Studio, but you just have to know how to go about doing it.|
|Rainer||I reckon there should be a rule - if you havent got anything nice to say, then dont say anything at all. Ie if someone asks a stupid question, instead of giving vindictive answers, either ignore them, or nicely direct them.|
Ignoring them would only cause them to either ask again, or assume it's dead. So that's out of the question.|
And what's the point in directing them to the other threads, they don't read them in the first place even though they are in this same board. Just posting the answer will suffice even though it's annoying to have to keep doing so.
|Endroz||Perhaps the best way to stop people from asking would be that Brian could post a message on the SCI Studio page telling "The work on SCI Studio has not been abandoned, please be patient and don't post messages arguing on that on the forum".|
@Chris Cromer: I don't understand your motives.|
On one hand only after a few hours after posting you edited the message of FK, claiming he wrote illegal stuff, when all he did was posting his E-Mail adress and asking people to send him the beta version of SCIStudio, which is hardly illegal at all.
The rights to the SCI system belong to Sierra/Vivendi, so no legal claims can be applied to the SCIStudio clone. Besides, since this program is not sold anyway no harm would be done anyway, if someonde did send the program to FK.
On the other hand in this thread
there exist a very open suggestion by Usman to copy and swap copyrighted software, which in fact is illegal. This post was send over a day ago and noone seem to care.
Brian does charge for they beta copy's and distributing them is violating what was said, we are NOT to redistribute them.|
As for that other post, I didn't see it till just now, I am not online 24 hours a day 7 days a week to monitor what is posted. I also don't check every single topic that is posted on this board. But when I see something that should not be posted then I do remove it. Which I will be doing now that I have seen it. The only reason I noticed the message in this topic so fast was just because I was posting in it and keeping track of it since people would be responding to things I said.
|Kon-Tiki||Correct me if I'm wrong, but coding in SCI and in SCI Vga are nearly the same, if not the same. Instead of waiting until SCI Vga is released, wouldn't it be better to start working on the games you have in mind in the version of SCI Studio that's already released? It'll get most of the work done already before SCI Vga Studio's released. Also try to keep people up to date 'bout the progress on those games. It'll show that Brian's previous work is put to use instead of being shoved aside by the majority. I know that I'd be alot more motivated to work on something when I know that the previous things I worked on are being put to good use.|
Hmm. There are lots of completed AGI games. Also, there are quite a few completed AGS games (another 256-color game studio, for those who don't know.) Why are there so few SCI games out there?|
I think the answer is that people don't feel as great an incentive to write good games for SCI. For AGI, I nostalgia goes a long way into the creation of new games. AGS has "the big feature", 256 color graphics. I think SCI 16 is in the uneasy position of having far less nostalgia value (tho I'm sure there is some) than AGI, while lacking the abilities of a system like AGS.
So, maybe if SCI Studio VGA were finished, people might actually make some good games for it, because it has a lot of the interesting features that people want (the big one, of course, being 256 color graphics.)
Just a thought. ;)
Why are there so few SCI games out there?
That's because of lack of documentations or I have too difficult to understand some documentations.
I asked about add.to.pic to the board and no one has answered me. Too sad.
And SCI Studio crashes after a while on win95,98 computers.
Somebody reported ScI Studio does not crash under win 2000, XP. Too bad. I have win98.
Back to the subject, Brian should edit his sci studio webpage
each six months to prevent everybody thinks sci studio is dead.
That isn't the only reason why there isn't that many SCI games yet. One of the major reasons is that SCI is still very new to us, it hasn't been around as long as AGS or the AGI tools has been. Have patience, good games can't be created over night, it takes some time and yes there are people working on SCI0 games.|
As for that nostalgia remark towards SCI0(16 color) games, my favorite classic game is SQ3 which is SCI0. Also, the resolution of SCI0 is better than that of AGI which means it can have more detail than those AGI games can. It may have the same ammount of colors as AGI... but the SCI engine has special ways to make it seem like more than 16 by mixing those 16 colors together in a pattern.
I may have actually fixed this problem, although without a Windows 9x machine to test it on, I can't be certain. Volunteers willing to hose up their machines for science would be welcome. ;D
Do you have a patch or a hint to prevent my computer to crash using sci studio?
Let me to know.
No, I modified and recompiled the source code so as to keep GDI memory leaks to a minimum. There shouldn't be any leaks any more, but like I said, I can't be certain. Barring any serious problems and/or complaints from Brian, or the other moderators here, I'll post a link to the file. It's significantly larger than the current scistudio.exe which I still haven't figured out...it's a around 2.5 MB.|
BTW, Brian, if you have any problems at all with me doing this, by all means, remove the link from this post...I'll have no problems with it.
Window 9x compatible SCI Studio???
I really hope this works! :)
As for SCI Studio: If you are so axnious to use it, then why dont you build your own project ;). Chris is not slamming anyone's request, he is fullfilling them to the greatest of his extent. His motives are clear to me FlyingDutchman, he is doing his job. What more can you ask?
In addition, guys just keep an open mind. People have lives as well as family. Not everyone can stay online all day, every day working on things in a community. The whole purpose of this community for everyone to pitch in and give their ideas/support. Demands dont get very far, just as far as a loss of respect. Dont forget that, because im sure some of you have ;)
*Kicks the soapbox to the side*
Thats about it...
Well, you know, no one ever argued that SCI doesn't have better graphics than AGI. It does. That much, I believe, is pretty obvious.|
Nor did I deny that SCI0 games have nostalgia value to some people (obviously, they do.) I personally really like SQ3 too - but I still think you will find that more people see AGI as the "bygone era" of gaming, with SCI0 lumped somewhere between AGI and SCI0's more colorful cousins.
I don't think anyone here has denied that SCI Studio is quite a piece of work, or that it was time consuming. But it was said, "Maybe if you guys spend more time writing SCI games...", and I was just saying, I don't think people have a lot of motivation to. As for those of you who do, more power to you. I'd love to see some more of those great games.
I think you have to consider that writing SCI0 games is really hard if you want to do it right - not necessarily the programming, but the art. Of course, it is all a matter of personal preference. If you want to get all of those dithered colors to look right, you have to take extra care and time (I'm speaking relatively.) Compare that to having a 256-color palette, and there's no contest. It's just much easier. Of course, so is AGI - if for no other reason than because the graphics system is more limited and therefore requires a lesser level of detail. People 'expect' less of AGI, because it can't really do much more. Personally, this is why I stick to AGI - you can make a fun game that looks good for the platform without spending your entire life on the project. I mean, most of us working on games don't have our entire lives to spend writing games, either.
Finally, there's no reason for the moderators or senior members to react in an arrogant and unkind way to things that people say. We've all been 'new' at some time or another. There's no excuse for it. So what if they didn't read threads that are now several months old? If you're gonna be mean you might as well not respond at all - some one else will, and probably without the attitude.
I mean, why is it so hard to just be nice to people?
If we don't tell these new people to start reading and searching before posting, they will just keep doing it. I wasn't trying to say it in a harsh way, or in a way that made it sound like I was flaming them for not doing it. Just that they need to do it for now on before posting. Ignoring it will only cause it to happen more often.|
There isn't really an nice way to say "you need to read/search before you post" no matter how you phrase that it's going to sound like it could be a little bit harsh.
The whole problem is from the people who don't like the answer that was given to them, even though it's the only and best answer we can give them at this time.
I know you didn't say it doesn't have a nostalgia value, but you did say that it has less than AGI which is just plain silly considering that the SCI0 games where of better quality than the AGI games which is what I was referring to.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see what graphics/sound quality has to do with nostalgia value. It always seemed to me to be something more associated with something from, say, your childhood or some other memorable time period / experience.|
I dunno, I think there are nice ways to say it, for example: "Hey, here's your answer... for the future, it will be easier for you (and the rest of us) to do a search in the forums before posting. ;)" or something to that effect. Also, one can search and miss it for some reason or another - happens to everyone from time to time, I think.
I'm not trying to pick a fight here or anything - I think in most cases you're a very good moderator. It just seems like some people get caught up in there "elite" status and have a tendency to go overboard when addressing what they see as "newbies" (who may, in fact, have been reading the board for months or years without posting, as in my case.)
Nobody wants to be treated like that. Everyone deserves a little respect, I think (ok, maybe not everyone - but certainly people just asking honest questions.) And, in this case, someone was just asking about whether or not it would be released - which, as more time passes, I think is a perfectly valid question. Even if there were old answers to this question, I can't see how they could answer the question now - several months down the road. If you look, you'll notice that the last time anyone asked about the current status on SCI Studio VGA, is was back on April 2nd; that was about 1.5 months ago (unless someone was posting about it in an unrelated thread which I didn't catch.)
|Paladinlover||People, I've said this before and I'll say it again. Just wait and give Brian the time he needs. I seriously doubt he's scrapped the project and I'm sure he'll be done before the summer is out. :)|
Disturbed Soul wrote:
Reading that reminded me of the #ocremix channel at IRC. Asking them for feedback on a remix you made'll get you flamed, called a fag, told your remix stinks even before they even got the link, etc. Even got the name Pr0n-Dick there, just because I haven't made a dozen remixes that've been accepted at OCremix. Compared to that, this place's welcoming newbies with open arms. Never even saw anything like going overboard towards newbies here.
"Are we there yet?"|
Repeat these lines a thousand times, and you have a traditional family vacation. The first few times you hear it, you don't think much of it; the kids are curious and don't really understand the concept of time and distance. However, the more often you hear it, the more your blood boils and the shorter your fuse gets. Asking "When will SCI Studio be released" is the exact same question. The first few times people ask that question, it's understandable. The webpage isn't updated regularly, no comments are made by the creator, and no one is talking about the newest version. But it's already been established that SCI Studio's production has been seriously slowed, by Brian's own admission. Even looking at the webpage should tell be enough to convince someone. The latest update was a few months ago, and has to do with GBAGI, which (if you've used it) is a massive undertaking and unrelated to SCI, so obviously SCI Studio production slowed down.
And, Disturbed Soul, some people do lurk on forums, yes. I have a tendancy to go a few months without making one post, and still be reading. However, I doubt that is truly your case because just about every month, someone comes to this forum to ask "are we there yet?" You would have seen it, and seen the reply.
In fact, I've been reading this forum briefly for over a year and frequently for almost year; I know people ask a lot of questions. But hey, it's been a long time, after all. Can you really blame them? The older threads asking if the program is finished (or when) have long since disappeared under the large number of new posts. Now, I don't have any proof to offer you that I've been around for a while; since I've only been reading and not posting, there's nothing concrete I can point out. Basically, I've just seen a lot of people abused because others get a high-and-mighty attitude. Maybe it wasn't their intention, but it still drives people away. I've also seen a couple of threads suddenly disappear, which also bothers me (seems an awful lot like outright censorship of unpopular ideas to me.) I'm sure the people in charge mean the best, but basically I'm upset with seeing people mistreated. I don't really want to "beat a dead horse", so to speak, and I feel I've made my point. You can try to discredit me if you really wish to. Regardless of whether or not you believe I've been reading for a while, I hope you consider my ideas nonetheless. I'm not writing for any personal gratification; I only hope that people can treat eachother in a more amicable, respectable manner. I ask that you show the "newbies" the same respect with which you wish to be treated, and that is all. Golden rule, anyone? I mean, really, don't you want to be treated with respect?
I suppose it's a problem with internet forums in general, but I just wish there was a little more of a human touch to forums, sorta like in the old BBS days. Maybe it's an impossible dream, but hey... I gotta try, right? ;) I'm really not trying to pick a fight. I think we basically understand eachother at this point; I just think it needed to be said.
Well I personally don't really delete posts.|
Usually the only time something is deleted is when it get's out of hand such as flaming, or for instance recently this one guy who posting this song over and over again which had nothing to do with the topic really other than repeating what we had already said.
Also note that sometimes they arn't deleted but rather moved to a more appropriate area if they are off-topic so that could also be it.
As far as I've seen in the AGI-forum, newbies are treated with more respect than regulars, because all the regulars know each other and know how to interprete something, so one regular'll be able to toy around more with another regular. That's not the case with newbies. They don't know us and we don't know them, so there could be interpretation mistakes on either side. As I see it, newbies are given more respect and are treated more like that in order not to annoy or frustrate them or to feel insulted, which they could if they'd be treated the same as the regulars treat each other.|
I don't know if this counts for the OS-dev and the SCI boards, because I'm not there as much, but at least that's how I see it. As for the general programming... I'm a newbie there myself and I don't feel that the others're being rude, insulting or in any other way mistreating me. Some have different ideas or assume things, but that's their attitude to regulars there too, and besides, that're only a few, far too few to represent the whole part.
All by all, I'm curious for examples of threads where there's newbie-bashing going on. It's hard to find up to non-existing, in my eyes.
I wouldn't consider it bashing but I have been very short with some newbie questions, mainly regarding those that are asking where they can get sprites or views, often telling them to draw them.|
Also when something pointless drags on and on it makes me mad, I often times will add a reply stating my blunt opinion but, it usually takes me a while to get miffed.
No doubt, newbies here are treated better than in many places on the net; I mean, there are places where you'll get flamed for posting anything. And the truth is, it's all relative to your point of view. It isn't outright flaming in my view; it's more of an attitude of condescension. I don't really know how productive it is to argue the point, so I'm satisfied having said my piece.|
Regarding examples, I can give them, but like any example of something so abstract they can be debated for quite a while. Nonetheless, I'll give them, and you're free to disagree.
As for the censoring of threads, I was mistaken - it was not an entire thread that disappeared, but a few messages from a specific thread. My apologies for my mistake. (http://www.mega-tokyo.com/forum/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=4816)
Now, maybe some of the deleted messages could have been considered "flaming", but they seemed to me more like strong disagreement with some other censorship being condoned (the outright removal of a game from the fan game site because, basically, Brian was unhappy about it. There was nothing illegal about the game itself.)
And the treatment of newbies...
Obviously, this thread is the one that set me off.
These are the ones that come immediately to mind. The second might be considered more of a good-natured ribbing, I suppose. I'm sure there are other examples I could come up with, but the truth is searching the forums for old messages is a time consuming process. I guess you can take it or leave it at that. It's possible I've just gotten the wrong idea - I mean, maybe all of these people are regulars who I'm misunderstanding to be new. It's possible, I don't really know. If that's the case, let me know.
Ope, you just miffed me. >:(|
Any person should have full ownership of their name. Brian, myself, or you should be able to ask that your name be removed from something that you don't endorse.
Rather than beat this dead horse any longer I will give you an example to illustrate:
"This herpes cream really works. I, --> insert anyones name <-- wouldn't lie about such a thing, I know from personal experience and guarantee it to clear up your worst outbreaks."
Any real name you add, unless they have a really good herpe cream to sell, would say and expectedly so "hey man, take my name off of that s**t." Brian is no exception.
Sometimes tempers may flare and that one line shot may get fired, sometimes more. But it seems to me to be only towards the redundant questions, on every page I think you will find a thread something like "when will Sci be done". If people are going to be so inconsiderate as to waste everyone's time... >:( ... I'll just stop that there because newbies aren't going to start searching old pages instead they are going to ask the question, to which the ONLY answer is "when it is."
In the end I find that this is a good community to be a part of.
I'm happy to hear your opinions but I think you are wrong.
The first example's completely understandable. That cameo Brian had in that game was slander, wether it's meant to be so or not. People could put you as a character in some hot sheppard-with-sheep-and-bull action in some game and you wouldn't like it either (unless you're like me and won't be able to continue playing the game from laughing... but that's beside the point)|
As for the second thread... Pikachu14 is Kyoufu Kawa. He's been around this board even longer than me. We've made the full design of Leisure Suit Larry 4 together and finished it about a year ago. He's been waiting for SCI Studio VGA to be released ever since... and actually from before the plans were done. I don't know 'bout CiaCioZ though... But I know that Kawa/Pika'd be working on LSL4 if he knows he could already do something for it, like coding, drawing backgrounds or views or something like that.
Maybe it's a good idea to make a sticky topic which gives the link to the tools that're already done and what can already be made for VGA games in progress... It would keep game production on a steady line and'd keep those waiting for the Studio busy until it's finished, cutting down on the amount of times it's asked when it'll be done.
Thank you -very- much for clearing that up Tiki. When GBAGI was released, it kinda toned down my anxiety (sp?) about SCI Studio's release date (which was IIRC long overdue but I'm intelligent enough to realise what "hobby projects" mean. I myself am unemployed but have -too much- hobby projects) because Brian was apparently -also- working on -that- project. Well now, that explains a lot.
This decompiler news article toned it down even more. Congrats, even though I hardly understand the Decomp's output.
I still don't understand where my account went. I remember some guy mildly flaming me in a PM because I said I was a god but I doubt he's responsible. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that I can still post and know that SCI Studio -will- be released. There are no midgets in my closet.
|FYI||Errr, people: I think that remark regarding the first thread is about the messages that were 'removed' there... So not about censoring the game... Some guy revived the thread with some poetry, IIRC, wreaking havoc in SCI-world... A bit childish, but mildly entertaining...|
Disturbed Soul wrote:
Actually, AGS supports up to 32-Bit colour, not just 256 colours... so that "big feature" is bigger than you originally thought... :P
Look, SCI Studio is not a job, he is not being paid to make it. He does this in his SPARE TIME.|
>Just have patience it will be released eventually when it is finished.
>And SCI Studio has gone a year before with no releases/updates so get over it.
Most of the people who post here admire Brian's talent and ask about the project because they CARE about his work. The person who posted this message did not FLAME Brian. 'Some' of the powers that be here should be thankful of the fact that people are even still interested in what looks like an abandoned project instead of lunging into someone the minute they dare to ask about the status of it.
Heaven forbid- by doing so, they would automatically have to be implying that Brian has no life, lives for SCI Studio, is really Satan personified, and does voodoo rituals underneath his house.
>>Donate to Chris Cromer through PayPal by clicking here
Not anytime soon.
First of all, this topic is a month old, so I don't see what dragging this back up again will do other than cause more problems. We gave them the best answer we could. Would you prefer no answer at all and to have people think the project has died, as apposed to an answer you don't like? It wasn't meant to be mean or flaming torwards the person who wrote the message although after re-reading it myself, I could have worded that better because it does sound a little bit harsh even though that wasn't what it was intended to be.|
As for that donation link, I can't modify my profile to remove that because of a bug in the board. I removed that link from my profile on all boards I visit with exception of this board since I can't get my profile to modify.
Anyway, there is no point in people dragging this topic up again and again, so I am going to lock it.
The only simple answer I can give is that it will be ready when it's ready and people should not hound him. Again this isn't meant to be mean, it's just the only and best answer you can get right now.