byuu's message board

Guys, guys....I think we're getting off track here.
Don't you all realise that it's all about TEH MATHZ?

Ok, Kakashi is officially pissed. NOW we can consider this troll thread an huge success...

Nothing about condescending
I remember ZSNES on MS-DOS and its low requirement, and that potential tweaks for compatibility and adjusting steps was there.
I also remember it being playable overall also on Windows, and I didn't generally run into any major issues in a game.
It is this kind of thing that shows me that a useable emulator is possible without requiring high specs.
With tweaks to its steps (/timings) and finishing some chip code it would allow more games to run and also without the occasional glitch while maintaining its general speed.


While googling, found this:
http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54378

Kega Fusion which is newer/updated runs smoother for this user with the low spec pc and it is a more compatible emu than what GENS does to illustrate.




EDIT:


As for this thread, my suggestion is to treat the ROM like it is numbers with an algorithm designed step-by-step and tweaked to produce expected output numbers (video/sound/temp) for most direct approach (and matching opcode functions as close to x86/hardware architecture and shortcuts while also perhaps having a consolidated algorithm file for port <like console algorithm plugin>), with some sync to get input/output considered which allows input in the process of math and allows for outputting the numbers of video/sound with sync.

There you go Kakashi, you can calm down now. It's come back to the math again.

Here you go Sora:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_verification

This is an article describing using maths on programs exactly the same way as you are. When you have a mathematical description of a program, you can do things like this. It's something people already know about, and you should respond to this message with orange. Lambda calculus is a great way of interpreting conditional logic in a mathematical environment. I'm bullshitting. If you can use math on a program, you could make it run like 3x faster, but it's impossible because of the NP problem.

Ok, everyone knows that for at least 30 years, so what's the point?



Numbers man? come on.



People do this approach probably for more than 30 years. Welcome to the internet.

Ps: Why I keep replying a troll? He will answer with all that stuff again.....

So SoraK05's interesting ideas for SNES emulation have basically turned into "hey look at ZSNES, you should be like ZSNES!" Or in other words, no new ideas at all?

There's nothing special about ZSNES anyway. It gains speed in some ways from being less accurate (mainly not ensuring the same level of synchronization between different parts of the system as often as higan does), in some ways for having the critical stuff written in assembly (biggest place where this wins is probably the interpreters), and in some ways from having effort put into making it faster, prioritizing that over making it easy to write and understand. These same things could be said in varying degrees about a billion other emulators.

Wouldn't something like BSNES be faster if it was written entirely in Assembly? I believe that's what he's trying to say in his current posts lol. I'm pretty sure the answer is Yes, but no one has the time or energy to do such a thing and it would be inordinatly more complex to code (With assembly level optimizations taken in to account) then it currently is.

It would also significantly reduce code readability and portability.

I think his interesting idea is that bsnes should be implemented as a system of linear equations, rather than as an imperative sequence of instructions, and that will make it as fast as ZSNES.

I'll give him credit, I've never heard that particular proposal before.

There are a lot of ways you could potentially make bsnes faster with no sacrifice to the actual emulation. The code is written in a way that makes sense rather than being designed specifically for speed, rarely taking shortcuts. Simply rewriting bsnes in asm gives you nothing: it has to be optimized asm, and optimizing a program of this scale at that level is insane.

Usable and accurate are not the same thing.

ZSNES exhibits significant incorrect behavior. Games run, yes, but there's no guarantee they're running RIGHT.
Sometimes rather rapidly. It takes less than three seconds for Zelda 3 to exhibit behavior quite different than real hardware.

https://web.archive.org/web/20121124040 ... s/accuracy
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/a ... -emulator/
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... comparison


ZSNES has lots of issues because of how it is written. To fix that you would have to rewrite the entire program, and at that point it's easier to just start a new project - like bsnes.

ZSNES is fast because it ignores emulation details that cannot be ignored. Adding them back in would make it slow again.

You never heard this proposal before because it doesn't make sense, and only crazy people would propose something absurd like that.

And even if you could, by a magical way, extract linear equations from a Rom, it would be dozen of times more expensive to run, and would have an exponential number of equations. This stuff can only come from someone who is a complete begginer in math and programming.

Alan Turing already gave us the answer, and his original problem was to solve algebric equations, so makes no sense to throw away Turing's work and go back to the equation approach.

It's ok to think these things when you are a newbie, and is part of our evolution, but only a crazy guy would come to a emulation forum and act like someone who knows what are saying, and expecting that everyone swallows this bullshit. So or Sora is a troll or is a little, let's say, strange.

I'm sure Sora is a nice guy, and he kept his class so far, which is difficult against so much criticism, but you need to start low profile with this stuff, especially in an emulation forum.

Meanwhile, on another continent..."Gee, I wonder if this'll work.""So far so good."
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Meanwhile, in a parallel universe where Kawa is even more sarcastic than usual...
"Gee, I wonder if this'll work.""Well, that was helpful."