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HyperZone 3D effect 
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Joined: Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:19:28

Posts: 280
Post HyperZone 3D effect
So, there's something kinda weird about the emulation of this game's 3D effect ( http://tcrf.net/HyperZone#3D_Effect ).

I tried it on higan v094 and snes9x-sx2 with the 3D effect code. It's a weird sequential 3D frames (left frame, then right) sometimes desynced, however on real hardware, the effect is really different, like it's actually interlaced 3D (and it's actually less annoying to play than in sequential frames), and pretty stable too, like left and right frame always on the same lines.

I've taken a few pictures, but are they really necessary? If you need those pics I'll get them on here.

I guess it's more of a screen drawing "problem" than anything else though. I felt like doing this topic since striving for SNES accuracy is pretty much the goal, and since I don't have the same reactions between emulation and real hardware, I felt like posting it.

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Wed 03 Sep 2014, 19:37:29
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Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 20:54:19

Posts: 2679
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Maybe it would have helped whoever uploaded that video if they had scaled it up to an HD resolution to preserve the 60fps aspect. It may also have preserved the graphical quality, because that video looks like shit, and I can't make out any stereoscopic 3D effect in it at all.

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blag

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 02:45:12
Screw y'all
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Joined: Tue 28 Dec 2010, 08:27:37

Posts: 1147
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
kode54 wrote:
if they had scaled it up to an HD resolution to preserve the 60fps aspect

Nope, 60FPS on youtube is still not public. THat said, it could easily have been run at 50% speed, or uploaded to archive.org

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CaptainJistuce wrote:
Well, the world used to run at 30 FPS until YouTube got 60 FPS support.
It's only recently that we've been able to see 60 FPS at all, and we should thank the Google for it.

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 03:41:21
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Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 20:54:19

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
I too will happily host large videos to a small crowd such as this forum. My hosting costs about 7 cents per gigabyte of static data, and about as much for the same amount in traffic.

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blag

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 03:46:35
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Joined: Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:19:28

Posts: 280
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Here's a 25 fps video of the 3D effect recorded with a smartphone, while it's not that precise, it's definitely what I see when I play it on real hardware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIn5OIfvpw

Like each line is a different frame.

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What? I love pink.
And Roll-chan too. (Only Roll.exe, I don't care about the others.)
Deal with it.

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 11:59:45

Joined: Sun 19 Apr 2009, 16:52:09

Posts: 101
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Are you using "real hardware" with an old plain CRT TV, or a fixed-resolution plasma/LCD TV?

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 14:47:56

Joined: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 01:26:03

Posts: 1983
Location: Australia
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Covarr wrote:
kode54 wrote:
if they had scaled it up to an HD resolution to preserve the 60fps aspect

Nope, 60FPS on youtube is still not public. THat said, it could easily have been run at 50% speed, or uploaded to archive.org

Don't you just switch to the HTML5 video player and a web browser with functional support for the features required, then watch the video at 720p or 1080p to get 60FPS playback? I dno't understand why you would think any of that isn't doable by the general public. There's no password protected features or anything to stop someone from doing it.

I do hate webpages that use an embedded video player that does NOT have a functional fullscreen button.

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Fri 05 Sep 2014, 14:53:06
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Joined: Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:19:28

Posts: 280
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Mednafen wrote:
Are you using "real hardware" with an old plain CRT TV, or a fixed-resolution plasma/LCD TV?

LCD. But as far as my knowledge goes, there's no reason it changes anything...

Meh. Does it REALLY matter?

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What? I love pink.
And Roll-chan too. (Only Roll.exe, I don't care about the others.)
Deal with it.

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 16:16:27

Joined: Sun 19 Apr 2009, 16:52:09

Posts: 101
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
LCD TVs typically don't directly display 240p content correctly, often treating it as 480i, if they accept the signal at all; it's one of many reasons why devices like the XRGB-* exist.

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 17:04:35

Joined: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 01:26:03

Posts: 1983
Location: Australia
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Don't LCD TV's also apply deinterlacing?

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Fri 05 Sep 2014, 17:05:59
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Joined: Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:19:28

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Mednafen wrote:
LCD TVs typically don't directly display 240p content correctly, often treating it as 480i, if they accept the signal at all; it's one of many reasons why devices like the XRGB-* exist.
As far as my knowledge goes, the SNES is always 480i at all times, but it's doubling the pixels in Video Modes 0-4 and 7, which makes it seem low resolution.

Franpa wrote:
Don't LCD TV's also apply deinterlacing?
Well on my TV, I don't see the difference.

Also, I made a little experiment, playing HyperZone on my Wii in both 480i and 480p.
Results:
480i = Same effect as on real hardware.
480p = Clearly alternating left/right frames every frame.
Also, no desync, which means I get frame drops on PC...

EDIT: ...and mostly means that it's more like something that can be fixed with a shader, I guess.

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What? I love pink.
And Roll-chan too. (Only Roll.exe, I don't care about the others.)
Deal with it.

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 17:54:30

Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009, 16:06:52

Posts: 2208
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
LuigiBlood wrote:
As far as my knowledge goes, the SNES is always 480i at all times, but it's doubling the pixels in Video Modes 0-4 and 7, which makes it seem low resolution.


The 240p mode works by drawing the scanlines in the same position every frame, while 480i will alternate between even and odd positions. A change in signal timing makes this possible. But an LCD will buffer the analog signal and reinterpret it, which could turn 240p into 480i. Hence why Mednafen asked.

SNES does however have an interlaced mode that this could be using.

Fri 05 Sep 2014, 18:25:20
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Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 18:17:56

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Location: Germany
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Better video:



You can select the method of 3D display in settings -> 3D -> options.

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Fri 05 Sep 2014, 19:33:41

Joined: Wed 06 May 2009, 04:13:19

Posts: 4543
Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Mednafen wrote:
LCD TVs typically don't directly display 240p content correctly, often treating it as 480i, if they accept the signal at all; it's one of many reasons why devices like the XRGB-* exist.

In this case, I can verify* identical behavior on an NTSC CRT via s-video to a real Super Nintendo. It's not the TV.
*Maybe. See end point.


Edit: As far as that second video goes, setting 3D mode to interleaved will get you the closest to the authentic experience, though the fringing is not native.


Editer: I'm not actually making any claims as to what it does in Higan, as I haven't tested that.


Editest: Okay, having now tested against higan .94 and re-reviewed the whole thing...
I think I may have misunderstood our favorite Roll.exe fan's issue, actually. Thus I ask for clarification.

Is the issue that the image "vibrates" back and forth between the two perspectives instead of displaying both solidly? Because that's normal.
Higan occasionally "choking" and falling out of "3D mode" briefly is almost certainly down to emulation skipping a frame.
Or is it something more significant that I'm missing?

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CaptainJistuce


Sat 06 Sep 2014, 02:43:10
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Joined: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 00:53:58

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Sidenote: Jun Ishikawa is a great composer. Also did Kirby and Alcahest. I was jammin out to his stuff daily through my boring 2 year stint at an insurance company.

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Sat 06 Sep 2014, 05:44:32
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