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HyperZone 3D effect 
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Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 18:17:56

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
CaptainJistuce wrote:
Edit: As far as that second video goes, setting 3D mode to interleaved will get you the closest to the authentic experience, though the fringing is not native.

It displays an interlaced image on the SNES? I would've thought it switches perspective inbetween whole frames.

EDIT: Using frame advance in BizHawk confirms that

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Sat 06 Sep 2014, 07:38:35

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
creaothceann wrote:
CaptainJistuce wrote:
Edit: As far as that second video goes, setting 3D mode to interleaved will get you the closest to the authentic experience, though the fringing is not native.

It displays an interlaced image on the SNES? I would've thought it switches perspective inbetween whole frames.

EDIT: Using frame advance in BizHawk confirms that

The fringing is from the YouTube 3D interlacing, 's why I was noting it was CLOSEST to a real experience, but the fringing was wrong.

I'm actually curious how he was capturing that to make the 3D video, but I guess he probably just told YouTube he was uploading alternate-frame 3D and let it figure things out.

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Sat 06 Sep 2014, 08:09:28

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Okay, I should have looked into this more, I had no idea that the game was using a stereoscopic 3D effect. If this was meant for using with shutter glasses that should work with alternating left and right eye each frame, not by interleaving the two, shouldn't it?

Sat 06 Sep 2014, 19:01:21

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Exophase wrote:
Okay, I should have looked into this more, I had no idea that the game was using a stereoscopic 3D effect. If this was meant for using with shutter glasses that should work with alternating left and right eye each frame, not by interleaving the two, shouldn't it?

Quite so.

But YouTube isn't outputting the original effect. It's been fed two discrete frames as an actual 3D video instead of being fed the raw SNES output as a 2D video, and has a buffet of 3D options you can select.

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Sat 06 Sep 2014, 23:27:58

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
CaptainJistuce wrote:
Quite so.

But YouTube isn't outputting the original effect. It's been fed two discrete frames as an actual 3D video instead of being fed the raw SNES output as a 2D video, and has a buffet of 3D options you can select.


Understood, but my point doesn't really have to do with the youtube video. You're simply not going to really make stereoscopy of this nature work by interleaving the scanlines.

Sun 07 Sep 2014, 07:09:29

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Exophase wrote:
CaptainJistuce wrote:
Quite so.

But YouTube isn't outputting the original effect. It's been fed two discrete frames as an actual 3D video instead of being fed the raw SNES output as a 2D video, and has a buffet of 3D options you can select.


Understood, but my point doesn't really have to do with the youtube video. You're simply not going to really make stereoscopy of this nature work by interleaving the scanlines.

'Kay. Just making sure we were on the same page, since there were multiple things going on.

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Sun 07 Sep 2014, 08:34:57
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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
OK, here's a recording of the effect. Left = even frames (0, 2, 4, ...) and right = odd frames.

https://mega.co.nz/#!NcAEhCgS!mSqsUoNS2 ... 4haZgQP-i8

Image

If you have an Nvidia 3D Vision set and a compatible monitor, get the 3D Vision Video Player and open the video with it.

IMO the 3D effect is a nice novelty that helps immersion, but not gameplay. :) The biggest drawback is probably the static "horizon" in the middle; it takes some time to ignore it and concentrate on the enemies.

Games like Star Fox, F-Zero, Mario Kart, Doom (if it renders at 60fps), Pilotwings, Super Punch-Out and any RPG that uses a Mode7 overworld map would have benefited from this effect (also Legend of Zelda's polygon intro, Earthworm Jim's warp tunnel, all jump'n'runs with parallax backgrounds, etc). There was even a predecessor of the shutter glasses technology with the Famicom 3D System...

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"I think it's more natural for human beings to be anxious. I think happiness is nothing but an illusion." - Hideaki Anno
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Tue 09 Sep 2014, 22:26:29

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
creaothceann wrote:
Games like Star Fox, F-Zero, Mario Kart, Doom (if it renders at 60fps), Pilotwings, Super Punch-Out and any RPG that uses a Mode7 overworld map would have benefited from this effect (also Legend of Zelda's polygon intro, Earthworm Jim's warp tunnel, all jump'n'runs with parallax backgrounds, etc). There was even a predecessor of the shutter glasses technology with the Famicom 3D System...

No predecessor, it WAS LCD shutter technology.
Sega had one too.

If you want a predecessor, check the Vectrex 3D Imager, which was a MECHANICAL shutter system.



I hypothesize that HyperZone development was started targeting a late Super FamiCom prototype, which had an expansion connector similar to the FamiCom's on the front. They probably thought they were going to be ABLE to use some form of LCD shutters.
Though I don't discount it being a feature added in to support something one of the developers built for personal use, like Tempest 2000's rotary controller support.

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Wed 10 Sep 2014, 00:55:51

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
It seems like you could do this with an LCD shutter that you plugged into a controller port. Either its own port or as a passthru. Toggle it each time the controller is latched (eg once a frame), done.

The main issue to me, is how the fuck do you make that work with interlace? The shutter glasses aren't going to be able to hide only even or only odd scanlines on your TV. There's no polarization in effect to make that work, and we didn't have any of the fancier 3D tech we have nowadays back then.

I would have thought a shutter effect would work by displaying fullscreen video frames that alternated the positions of everything onscreen. So without the glasses, it'd just look like a stuttering mess.

Wed 10 Sep 2014, 01:35:22
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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
CaptainJistuce wrote:
creaothceann wrote:
There was even a predecessor of the shutter glasses technology with the Famicom 3D System...

No predecessor, it WAS LCD shutter technology.

Er, I meant as in a previous instance of that technology. Not sure if "predecessor" is the right word.

byuu wrote:
The main issue to me, is how the fuck do you make that work with interlace?

The game is still progressive; it's just that YT has an option to show the video as interlaced.

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"I think it's more natural for human beings to be anxious. I think happiness is nothing but an illusion." - Hideaki Anno
"If you can't joke about incest in anime then what kind of world are we living in?!" - gothicmaster

Wed 10 Sep 2014, 01:42:45

Joined: Sat 18 Apr 2009, 16:06:52

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
byuu wrote:
The main issue to me, is how the fuck do you make that work with interlace? The shutter glasses aren't going to be able to hide only even or only odd scanlines on your TV. There's no polarization in effect to make that work, and we didn't have any of the fancier 3D tech we have nowadays back then.


Exactly why this probably isn't displayed as interlaced on a CRT TV.

Wed 10 Sep 2014, 01:46:54

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Oh sorry, I read "like it's actually interlaced 3D" and presumed that's what was meant.

Okay then nevermind, I've lost interest.

Wed 10 Sep 2014, 01:51:56
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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
Yeah it's a 2 page discussion because of a mistake of mine. I don't understand how interlaced 3D works though, like some VirtualBoy emulator actually has. But yeah it's supposed to be progressive here. Meh.

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Wed 10 Sep 2014, 12:20:26

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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
LuigiBlood wrote:
I don't understand how interlaced 3D works though, like some VirtualBoy emulator actually has.

The 3D display does some processing and sends odd lines to one eye and even lines to the other eye.

Of course, this can't be done easily with glasses, so you DO need a dedicated 3D display unit. Or processing to... deinterlace it and construct alternating frames for your shutter glasses... yeah.

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Wed 10 Sep 2014, 12:50:37
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Post Re: HyperZone 3D effect
The dev's may have just been trying for a 3d effect known as Wiggle stereoscopy. It produces a 3d effect by simply rapidly swapping between two perspectives, without the need for glasses or other filters.

Image

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Wed 10 Sep 2014, 15:44:18
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