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GBA BIOS and performance questions 
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Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 15:00:08

Posts: 13668
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
> I think that's "wrong" too though.

Well you're not alone, anyway.

The mameworld.info people tore me a new asshole when I proposed that idea. And you know it's bad when the super-accuracy forum people are pissed off at you.

Nothing I do ever pleases people. Stick with HLE, the games have timing issues and some just don't work at all. Include firmware with emulator, it's illegal. Put in with ZIP archive, it forces you to use compression to distribute games. Append it to ROM, it ... makes the file 4KB bigger, I guess is the argument. Put each file into a folder, I may as well have just reopened Auschwitz.

> So maybe just support the idealistic view and hope people eventually stick with it?

This is the idealistic view. It's never going to be idealistic to expect everyone else to implement my game folder format.

Although I did try for several years to get others to contribute their thoughts on the game folder design, all I got was ridiculous bike-shedding.

But now that I've completed it, people are going to view it not as "the game folder format", but as "byuu's higan" format, and they'll resent using a rather complex (by necessity) format designed by one person.

So it's not idealistic because I know that if I came along five years later, and even if I agreed with game folders, but some guy chose to implement them using SGML to markup Verilog-like pinout statements, and stored the image files in 7-bit-safe base64 text files, I'd probably balk at using that.

I think my game folder format is perfect (after 5+ years of revising and refining it), but others won't agree.

Mon 09 Jun 2014, 04:19:23
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Joined: Sat 10 May 2014, 15:52:32

Posts: 91
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
byuu wrote:
This is the idealistic view. It's never going to be idealistic to expect everyone else to implement my game folder format.

Although I did try for several years to get others to contribute their thoughts on the game folder design, all I got was ridiculous bike-shedding.

But now that I've completed it, people are going to view it not as "the game folder format", but as "byuu's higan" format, and they'll resent using a rather complex (by necessity) format designed by one person.

So it's not idealistic because I know that if I came along five years later, and even if I agreed with game folders, but some guy chose to implement them using SGML to markup Verilog-like pinout statements, and stored the image files in 7-bit-safe base64 text files, I'd probably balk at using that.

I think my game folder format is perfect (after 5+ years of revising and refining it), but others won't agree.

I really regret that. Aside from accuracy, the game folders were Higan's main selling point to me. I would love to see a Sega emulator with the same feature someday.

Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:09:46

Joined: Wed 09 Feb 2011, 13:29:34

Posts: 425
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
I thought about forming a cenacle of standardization practices for emulator, like W3C, but it would need to be a democracy to be accepted by all and democracy always go into the wall at max speed.

My guess is that we need to clone byuu.

We could have original-byuu supervizing everything, putting on standards and coding hobby projects and then sfc-byuu (sfc core), gb-byuu, fc-byuu, gba-byuu, cydrak-byuu (cydrak-clone working for byuu), thirdparty-byuu, collecting-byuu (we would send this one to Japan to collect everything missing and that would cause ruckuss with original-byuu switching places with him), money-earning-byuu (this one for the office), etc.

Feel free to add contributions and open a database of byuu-clones with a foldered dat file for clrmame for collecting all byuu-clones.

But, really, I guess byuu really needs to have people of trust which would go public relation for him and promote stuff while byuu rest in the darness doing what he likes rather than being a SFC cartridge trying to fit into a MD console.

Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:27:40
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Joined: Thu 22 Mar 2012, 04:37:56

Posts: 502
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
You don't need to do something so specific. You just need a way to make people give a shit about progress (even if they're conservatively minded -- headered roms for lyfe!!1) and a way to filter out the shitty people on both ends -- the people who shit on stuff and make a huge irrational stink about someone somewhere doing something different, and the people who argue for days on end about the perfection and legitimacy that is the Next Big Thing too.

Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:55:38
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Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2010, 19:09:18

Posts: 236
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
thebullfrog wrote:
OH, and here's another one I forgot about. I couldn't get Mario Kart to work either, even with the DSP1B.rom in there. I figured it was a bad ROM, so replaced with one from NoIntro. Same problem.

I just checked out the manifest in the game library and it looks for dsp1b.program.rom. Again, changing the bml to look for just dsp1b.rom got me up and running. (I didn't try renaming the firmware dsp1b.program.rom, because double extensions tweak me out)

EDIT:I take it back, Mode 7 explodes. Anything that should be Mode 7 is never even rendered. Ditto if I change everything over to dsp1b.program.rom. Mode 7 is just straight up not happening.

Check this post I wrote a while back: http://board.byuu.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4247&p=99631#p99631 and if you still can't get it to work, let me know.

thebullfrog wrote:
jchadwick wrote:
I recommend deleting your game folder and reimporting with dsp1b.rom (as dsp1.rom iirc) alongside the ROM. I dunno what might have happened, but it's easier to start fresh and just get it to import without errors.

Also be sure it's the newer versions, not the older versions- some were for older versions of bsnes.



That did it. Putting the DSP1B.rom into the game's zip file before importing got it working.
Ah, jchadwick beat me to it again...

Tue 10 Jun 2014, 06:20:22

Joined: Sat 07 Jun 2014, 00:04:09

Posts: 8
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
HitokiriEric wrote:
Ah, jchadwick beat me to it again...

Haha, yep, that got it working and it's been smooth sailing ever since. Thank's though!

Sat 14 Jun 2014, 05:19:58

Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 22:30:48

Posts: 3797
Location: Salem, Oregon
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
trap15 wrote:
I think that's "wrong" too though. But you're right, it's far too idealistic, and unlikely to actually take off.

I don't really think concatenating the DSP firmware to the program ROM image is going to take off either, though. So maybe just support the idealistic view and hope people eventually stick with it? A very tricky situation indeed...


it doesn't need to be adopted by most people. Most people don't emulate with higan, most people don't play old games.

it doesn't really matter, as long as we use something that a small group can maintain, that's all that matters IMO

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Tue 01 Jul 2014, 18:57:44
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Joined: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 06:19:08

Posts: 32
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
I cannot wait for GBA emulation to be in the 'top tier' - I also am playing zero mission and experience the slow down. I wish I had the ability to help fix it :P

is this a low priority item in the grand scheme of higan, the rom prefetch for gba?

Mon 28 Jul 2014, 22:23:29

Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 15:00:08

Posts: 13668
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
For now, it's completely off the radar.

It's a high wish item, but the documentation on it is so bad that it's almost as bad as not having any.

Someone needs to show up who either a) knows how it works, or b) can run tests on real hardware to tell us how it works and implement it.

I just can't do b) myself. I'm ten years into bsnes and there is still a sea of PPU behaviors left to emulate. I have way too much on my plate to take on another 10+ year goal of setting up to run homebrew on the GBA, and verifying all the little nuanced behaviors.

We need a new champion who is willing to do this RE work and to help me improve bgba. But more than likely, even if one shows up, they'll be too busy with their own emulator to help get mine up to speed. I know I tried with improving existing SNES emulators, but they just didn't have the intensity I did, so I went out on my own. The same will probably happen even if we do get a GBA champion.

Mon 28 Jul 2014, 23:12:12
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Joined: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 06:19:08

Posts: 32
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
that's too bad! I've really taken a liking to you rom folders and shader setup and love the emulator - I've been following bsnes since at least 2008 - being an 'older' gamer now who grew up with having an NES as my earliest Christmas memory I can't seem to really get into newer games and much prefer the classics!


I do understand why you feel that way about gba though but it saddens me because higan is a very well put together package. I never thought about playing my gba games on a tv. after trying a few I don't want to go back to the small screen! :P


is this any use? forgive me if it's not, I'm just hoping it is http://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm

Tue 29 Jul 2014, 23:59:07
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Joined: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 04:21:58

Posts: 4783
Location: Australia
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
I have a GBA and a flashcart so I can run tests on it, and I'm even interested in supporting the cause of accurate GBA emulation, but I wouldn't even know where to begin, let alone how to test the specific details buy needs.

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Wed 30 Jul 2014, 00:36:21
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Joined: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 06:19:08

Posts: 32
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
ditto - I've got a GBA SP and ez-flash IV :)

Wed 30 Jul 2014, 00:37:45

Joined: Tue 21 Feb 2012, 05:42:15

Posts: 2564
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
Original GBA and Supercard SD here.

I am not exactly a GBA aficionado, nor much of an enthusiast. But, there is still passing interest. I have a few more problems I would like to debug if I get the chance.

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Wed 30 Jul 2014, 00:51:58
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Joined: Mon 20 Apr 2009, 08:11:50

Posts: 5266
Location: 日本
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
I have a Supercard SD but I've already performed the supposed irreversible DS firmware upgrade on it...

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Wed 30 Jul 2014, 02:05:27

Joined: Tue 21 Feb 2012, 05:42:15

Posts: 2564
Post Re: GBA BIOS and performance questions
Hm? Mine works on Nintendo DS, for DS games, and original GBA. It seems to work fine with the irritating caveat that everything has to be patched for it, thus making it a kind of poor testbed.

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Wed 30 Jul 2014, 02:47:20
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