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Posted on 19-08-19, 16:48
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #586 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 134 days
Last view: 133 days
Personally, I just use autocomplete. Far more robust than copy-paste, in my opinion. It however uses backslashes, unless you initiate with a quote, which is even uglier.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-08-20, 22:35 (revision 5)
Not from my cellphone

Post: #496 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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VirtualBox missed the Buster release (just like it happened on Stretch, due to some silly Orrible® licensing BS security theater because releasing information about security flaws on OSS is expressly verboten by their beancounters), and it will get REMOVED due to dependencies on next install.

So this means my final Stretch->Buster update (my Steamlaptop) will get even more delayed. Time to wonder why.

UPDATE: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794466
Oh boy, it's the same fucking bullshite that happened prior to Stretch too!
Even worse: its release to buster-backports (when that repo actually starts getting packages) is in doubt due to some political crap between Orrible and Debian maintainers. I don't want to have to build my own .debs from the Sid sources, or even worse, use the upstream ones.

Guys, how do I get someone to shit a smelly turd on Larry's precious and very expensive boats!?

UPDATE 2: Tried building .debs from the Sid sources. It wants me to install nearly three quarters of a gigabyte of shit, including a new JDK (OK, I'll have to install that anyway as JDK8 is pretty much dead except for enterprisey, but still... why in the hell do I need a JDK to build a native VM!? This isn't Android, y'know)... and texlive-fonts-extra, which on itself is about HALF A GIGABYTE OF GOD ONLY KNOWS WHY. (actually 414MB) On a single package, no less! So... that's just NOT happening, Orrible. Unfortunately, I do need VirtualBox for work reasons. I guess I'll have to gamble my luck with the Sid binary packages, taking advantage that we're still not very far away from the Buster release and therefore there should not be compatibilty troubles, considering that the next Testing is still thawing.

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Posted on 19-08-21, 01:07
Full mod

Post: #325 of 404
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 days
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I wish VirtualBox had the same fate as OpenOffice.org, i.e. hard-forked by community members who actually cared and did a better job than Oracle.

Unfortunately, while OpenOffice was strategically important to, say, RedHat, RedHat doesn't need VirtualBox because they've got libvirt and qemu. Which is pretty slick, but I don't know what the "build a VM in app X and run it in app Y" compatibility story is like (for X and Y in: VirtualBox, VMware, VirtualPC, Hyper-V, bhyve, QEMU, Parallels, etc.)

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 19-08-21, 13:02
Not from my cellphone

Post: #498 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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My experience with VMs was originally with Virtual PC, then VMWare Player, and finally, VirtualBox, with a brief stint at Hyper-V.

There is OVF which is supposed to be a interoperable format to easily move "appliances" between virtualization solutions, but in practice it has largely failed. I once tried to export a VBox VM to Hy-perv. "Easy enough", they said.

Nope, you simply don't even have to try. Unless you're masochist. Like me.
IIRC I also remember having moved my licensed XP Mode VM twice: first from VPC to VMWare Player (it involved jumping some flaming hoops around the VMWare site to download a converter tool, then yet more hoops to get it installed and the VM eventually moved). The second move was from VMWare to VirtualBox, but in this case I just cheated and copied the HDD image - that's the most safe way to do it, actually! (that, and using a hacked VBox BIOS image to "inject" the XP Mode OEM activation sauce).

So yeah, "interoperability" is a curse word of sorts here.
But I agree that someone should fork off VBox (and not just sent to the Apache House of Unloved Orrible FOSS Projects, where software comes to die) for the good of the project, as its future under Oracle is anything but brilliant. Reminds me of another longstanding VBox bug involving 3D acceleration and nVidia GPUs under Linux with the proprietary blob (which makes running Windows 8.x/10 or W7+Aero pretty much impossible), a intentional regression that Oracle was refusing to fix just to please a single customer (don't have the bug number at the moment, and dunno what happened with it). It would be a shame to see VBox die, as that's by far the most user-friendly solution out there - VMWare left their desktop solutions to rot, and QEMU/libvirt are not exactly for the faint of heart - VirtualBox is the "just works™" solution for those of us who still have to virtualize some XP junk every now and then, or for toying with multiple OS on the desktop (VMWare Player used to be great in the past, as long as you only had the need to have a SINGLE VM per host, unless you were willing to fork some good dough for a Workstation license)

---

Anyway, I'm glad to know that the Sid packages of VirtualBox (now at version 6!) do indeed work in Buster. You however need to install libvpx6 (once again, who comes up with those ridiculous unrelated dependencies!?), which is not in Buster, but the Sid package is compatible. I really don't like to "break Debian", but I HOPE that their Debian maintainers will get their shit sorted out eventually and push the packages to Backports, allowing me to stick to the stock repos. I don't really care about security updates on this one: while I actually do run VirtualBox on production servers (or used to do at my former job), none of those setups are hooked up to the shark-infested Wide Open Web where Lil' Skript Kiddy can attack the emulated NIC or something. The rest of my use cases for VBox are at home, where a VM will rarely run for over a couple hours at most. But then I guess Orrible beancounters and Debian packagers know better than me :/

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Posted on 19-08-21, 13:46
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #593 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 134 days
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I remember libvirt/QEMU as being okay to use. What's the downside?


There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-08-21, 17:41 (revision 1)
Not from my cellphone

Post: #499 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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Bring me a nice foolproof GUI (like the one VBox has), and decent 3D acceleration that doesn't require me to buy a second videocard and play PCI pass-through shenanigans, and I'll reconsider.

But then, that will eventually happen if Oracle continues alienating its userbase. VMWare is quite irrelevant on desktop nowadays (not to mention that it's closed source and not free), and Hy-perv is Windows-only (and useless for desktop, to boot). Either libvirt/QEMU gets user-friendly enough to reach "appliance" status (the one that VBox has today), or VBox gets forked (I guess that it will unleash the wrath of Larry, but whatever)

Regarding that nVidia flickering bug, I found the ticket: https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/13653
A 4 year old regression introduced to fix something for some unnamed paying customer by some developer that eventually left Oracle. Fixes were initially rejected, then the usual "it's Open Source, patches welcome!", then some bikeshedding, and eventually a compromise: not a checkbox, but an environment variable. Except that the bug somehow ended hitting Windows users too, where setting environment vars is NOT a walk in the park because lolMicrosoft. And it seems that the bug was reintroduced on the latest Vbox 6.0.x, without hopes for a solution because it somehow only affects users on nVidia hardware using the blob.

So yeah, endure ATi driver hell, Intel is Good Enough, or if you're lucky to own one of the 3 GPUs with half-decent Nouveau support, uninstall the blob. All of this for having a shiny desktop (or in the case of W8/10, a desktop at all, thanks to forced DWM)

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Posted on 19-08-21, 19:27
Not from my cellphone

Post: #500 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox
Installation of non-free edition

Debian 10 "Buster"

Packages for VirtualBox are not available in Debian 10 and won't be in buster-backports either. A recommended alternative is Virtual Machine Manager (buster/virt-manager).


Well, fuck you Debian, and FUCK YOU VERY MUCH, ORRIBLE.

So yeah, VirtualBox is pretty much done on Debian, partly because their maintainers can't make a goddamned exception to their absurdly rigid "no new versions from upstream on Stable, even if upstream have separate maintenance branches" (remember the whole Iceweasel fiasco), but mostly because Orrible doesn't want anyone using their products without paying them dearly, because Larry wants to buy another boat. Build my own .debs it is, because I really can afford wasting 3GB of disk for a single program I use every now and then.

Also, fuck you One Raging Asshole Called Larry Elison.

Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free
Posted on 19-08-21, 22:07
Stirrer of Shit
Post: #594 of 717
Since: 01-26-19

Last post: 134 days
Last view: 133 days
It has a nice GUI called virt-manager. I can't remember using 3D acceleration, but Arch Wiki says it exists.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-08-22, 03:00
Not from my cellphone

Post: #501 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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I guess I'll have to take a look on that someday... but then your current options for 3D accel are:

1) GPU passthrough: not feasible on a laptop, nVidia blob blocks that unless you're paying good money for a Quadro (hacks do exist), and you need to buy a extra video card that you can't use for anything else
2) GPU virtualization: some newer Intel IGPs can do that (GVT-d), but then it implies buying new (and very specific) hardware. Weirdly enough, neither AMD nor nVidia offer something like that yet!
3) VirtGL: Unfortunately it doesn't do D3D yet, which means no Aero, possible troubles with W8/10 desktops, and no Win32 games - OGL workloads should be fine.

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Posted on 19-08-22, 06:53
Full mod

Post: #326 of 404
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 10 days
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Posted by tomman
There is OVF which is supposed to be a interoperable format to easily move "appliances" between virtualization solutions, but in practice it has largely failed.

As I understand it, it's great for Linux VMs, because the Linux kernel generally includes all the drivers for everything everywhere, but I can just run Linux software directly, I don't need a VM for it. I need a VM to run Windows software, but Windows installations tend to have very specific hardware drivers installed in the registry, so moving an installation from one VM platform to another (or one motherboard to another) gets you blue-screens.


libvirt's virt-manager is a shiny easy-to-use front-end like VBox has, but.... it's designed by RedHat for RedHat's customers. So, for example, you don't keep a bunch of VM images in your home directory, you connect to a daemon that manages all the VMs on a system. Bad luck if you've got a small root partition and a big home partition! Video always runs through VNC or SPICE, for ease of managing a fleet of VMs on servers from your workstation, but bad luck if you wanted 3D acceleration. When creating a VM, it asks for a bootable CD image to install from, which is exactly what you want when dealing with modern server OSs, but sucks if you want to install Win95 or something a bit niche.

GNOME's "Boxes" is an even shinier, even simpler libvirt front-end, but... well, GNOME 3.

QEMU is vastly more powerful and flexible, but of course much trickier to use. It's actually pretty easy for the real simple stuff; you can boot up a floppy image with "qemu-system-i386 -fda disk1.img", but of course more complex things like ejecting one floppy and inserting another are... less easy.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 19-08-24, 11:57
Not from my cellphone

Post: #504 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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The broken Steamlaptop has been busted!

Well, it rebooted at first try. Definitely my most clean Debian dist upgrade to date. Sega 32X Optimus graphics still work fine (and the nVidia blob is still causing some kernel bug when turning off discrete graphics - harmless, but still annoying).

Time to clean up, curse Oracle, reinstall VirtualBox, curse Oracle again, figure out if my Project64 ROMs still run on whatever Mupen64Plus build they ship (apparently it's still 2.5.0, so those non-N64 Mario hacks should work), and call it done.

So, for those following the count at home, I'm at 3xBuster and 2xJessie setups here. The Jessie ones will stay there, even past LTS. I can't believe that I first switched to Debian at hone back in 2012, when Wheezy was still in testing. The very same laptops have been upgraded over and over and over (Wheezy->Jessie->Stretch->Buster), and this time, the upgrade went real smooth. Try doing that with Fedora. Or with Windows :P

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Posted on 19-08-25, 00:07
Not from my cellphone

Post: #509 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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So yeah, something broke. On this very last laptop, notifications stopped working on MATE.

I noticed because I downloaded a file, and instead of the fancy MATE notification, I got a horrible plain unstyled XUL notification from Seamonkey. Checked with the MATE notification settings... just to get a hang, and after a while, a DBus error!

But on my Dell, notifications work fine, so go figure. Maybe I did uninstalled some seemingly-harmless cruft during post-upgrade cleanup? Both laptops have more or less the same packages. Checked the install of mate-notification-daemon, and it was fine. Tried manually invoking the daemon (which lives at /usr/lib/mate-notification-daemon/mate-notification-daemon), and notifications worked for a while... but then the daemon exits after a few seconds of inactivity or so, because it's supposed to be invoked on the fly via DBus. Once it exits, notifications stop working.

Long short story: I have both MATE and KDE installed. I rarely use KDE these days because Plasma 5 is a terminal cancer, and it's too bloated for my older Dell anyway. Both ship with DBus service files for their respective notification daemons (org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service / org.freedesktop.mate.Notifications.service). Turns out that notifications have been working for me by sheer luck all these years, but my luck just ran out, as when DBus finds several providers for the same service, it will pick the first it finds (and not necessarily the newest one it finds, unlike what some people claim that the docs say - this poor guy had the same problem as me but on Fedora). There is a easy way to check who will win on your specific setup:

Steamlaptop:
tomman@himawari:/usr/share/dbus-1/services$ grep -RI 'org.freedesktop.Notifications' /usr/share/dbus-1/services/
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service:Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service:Exec=/usr/bin/plasma_waitforname org.freedesktop.Notifications
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.mate.Notifications.service:Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications


Ol' Dell:
tomman@tomman-lp-c2:~$ grep -R 'org.freedesktop.Notifications' /usr/share/dbus-1/services/
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.mate.Notifications.service:Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service:Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service:Exec=/usr/bin/plasma_waitforname org.freedesktop.Notifications


grep doesn't seem to care about alphabetical order or file dates - timestamps are consistent across both laptops, since they're both using stock Debian packages:
tomman@tomman-lp-c2:/usr/share/dbus-1/services$ ls -l *Notifications*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 115 ene 9 2019 org.freedesktop.mate.Notifications.service
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 114 feb 13 2019 org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service

tomman@himawari:/usr/share/dbus-1/services$ ls -l *Notifications*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 115 ene 9 2019 org.freedesktop.mate.Notifications.service
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 114 feb 13 2019 org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service

...yet on this Asus, the Plasma provider wins. And it starts. And it sits there, frozen. And eventually DBus times out and vomits a completely user-unfriendly error message, and leaves me with a hung notifications daemon and no notifications at all.

Technically the blame lies on MATE, as they refuse to obey the DBus specs and just keep their daemon running session-wide so DBus doesn't have to play the mailman game, ringing doors until it finds someone willing to receive the package. I guess I could go ahead and delete the Plasma notification provider... but on this Asus I actually use KDE once in a blue moon. Or figure out a way to make DBus (and grep and anyone else that only cares about the order in which files were created into the filesystem) to always pick the MATE notification service first...

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Posted on 19-08-25, 00:20
Not from my cellphone

Post: #510 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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ls -U shows that the MATE provider was created first, yet both grep and DBus pick the Plasma entry!

However, moving the file org.kde.plasma.Notifications.service to org.kde5.plasma.Notifications.service actually changes everything:

tomman@himawari:/usr/share/dbus-1/services$ grep -RI 'org.freedesktop.Notifications' /usr/share/dbus-1/services/
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.mate.Notifications.service:Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.kde5.plasma.Notifications.service:Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.kde5.plasma.Notifications.service:Exec=/usr/bin/plasma_waitforname org.freedesktop.Notifications

In this case, the MATE provider is seen first, and indeed DBus invokes the MATE provider whenever someones wants to notify something.

WTF Loonix?!

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Posted on 19-08-25, 03:24
Full mod

Post: #329 of 404
Since: 10-30-18

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> ls -U shows that the MATE provider was created first...

Is that a straight "ls -U", or something like "ls -U *Notifications*"? Because if it's the latter, the list of items is provided by the shell, rather than by ls, and the shell might do its own sorting or something.

> WTF Loonix?!

I think renaming does put the new name at the end of the "ls -U1" list, so that would explain why renaming the KDE service put it last.

However, note that ext4 filesystems support "directory indexing", which stores a directory's filenames in a B-Tree index, so they'll always be iterated in sorted order regardless of creation order.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 19-08-26, 21:12
Post: #18 of 20
Since: 11-08-18

Last post: 4 days
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I'm sure someone will package Virtualbox for Buster, at some point. Unofficially, of course.
Posted on 19-09-07, 22:44 (revision 1)
Not from my cellphone

Post: #527 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

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Backports now has some cool stuff for Buster, including a new 5.x-series kernel, so I took the offer.

Looks like my Inspiron 6400 kinda disliked it.... or at least the wired NIC (some Broadcom IC that has worked flawlessly since the good ol' 2.6 series) started vomiting at my kernel log:
...kernel log snipped, look at the bugreport...

If there is network traffic of ANY kind, I'll get my kernel log spammed to death and back with that crap. This time I'm not alone, as some guy is experiencing regressions with the b44 driver on Ubuntu:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1821564

"If it is not broken, don't fix it!"
Linus, where are your angry yells when they're needed?!
In the meanwhile I've filled a Debian bug, and refrained from booting 5.2 on this laptop anymore (4.19 works fine)

---

If you're updating to kernel 5.2 with the nVidia blob, be aware that the version on Buster will not build with it. Yup, it's that time of the year again, the joys of proprietary kernel modules. nVidia has already fixed this upstream, but until the fixed version lands on buster-backports, you have to fetch the DKMS module from Debian Snapshots (in my case, this one)

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Posted on 19-09-08, 17:57 (revision 1)
Not from my cellphone

Post: #528 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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Doing some research, this nasty bug was introduced sometime after kernel 4.19 (maybe around the initial 5.0 releases), due to some changes in DMA direct functions, because someone decided to get SWIOTLB involved on all this. This is the offending commit:

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/commit/kernel/dma/direct.c?h=v5.2.13&id=55897af63091ebc2c3f239c6a6666f748113ac50

Not all devices play nice with this change, including my Broadcom BCM4401 NIC.
Playing with the swiotlb= kernel parameter only causes DMA failures or even null pointer dereferences, leading to system unstability and -why not?- crashes.
And surprise surprise, I found several other ancient Dell hardware users with the EXACT SAME BUG:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1709671 (Fedora)
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1844324#p1844324 (Arch)

Some may blame this recent commit on the b44 driver itself:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/0f0ed8282e5bfdc87cdd562e58f3d90d893e7ee5#diff-5ab1294594ceb973d7ba266e32b767ea
...but it's not the first time b44 and swiotlb don't play nice:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/linux.kernel/GEx80ZCue1o

tl;dr: if you own a Dell system with a wired BCM4401 NIC, AVOID 5.X KERNEL RELEASES!

Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free
Posted on 19-09-10, 17:55 (revision 1)
Not from my cellphone

Post: #534 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
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There is a legit use for PulseAudio beyond "juggling with multiple soundcards": visualizations!

If you let Pulse move into your house, you get rights to the awesome projectM library, with support for the equally awesome Milkdrop visualizations, and it also ships with a Pulseaudio monitor app that can convert every boop and beep emitted by your applications into pure LSD.

...or at least it should do so if it wasn't too busy segfaulting aborting with a double-free on Debian. Once again, the fault is not on Lennart, but on projectM themselves.

How to properly build Debian packages from sources with user modifications
dch --nmu
quilt new someusefulname.patch
quilt add path/to/filename/to/patch.cplusplusisshit
<repeat for each file to modify>
your-favorite-text-editor ...
quilt refresh
<repeat for every change>
dpkg-buildpackage -b -us -uc -tc


Anyway, in the case of projectM, just merge this patch, build your debs, and install the resulting libprojectm-qt1v5 (you don't need to install everything else), because we won't be getting this merged downstream until the next Debian release cycle :/

There you have, you can get your Lennarts high too :D

Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free
Posted on 19-09-30, 19:47
Not from my cellphone

Post: #563 of 721
Since: 10-30-18

Last post: 3 days
Last view: 10 hours
Posted by tomman
Looks like my Inspiron 6400 kinda disliked it.... or at least the wired NIC (some Broadcom IC that has worked flawlessly since the good ol' 2.6 series) started vomiting at my kernel log:
...kernel log snipped, look at the bugreport...

If there is network traffic of ANY kind, I'll get my kernel log spammed to death and back with that crap. This time I'm not alone, as some guy is experiencing regressions with the b44 driver on Ubuntu:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1821564

"If it is not broken, don't fix it!"
Linus, where are your angry yells when they're needed?!
In the meanwhile I've filled a Debian bug, and refrained from booting 5.2 on this laptop anymore (4.19 works fine)


Three weeks later, my bug report remains untriaged. Yay opensource.

Still better than the dude that reported it to Fedora, whose bug report just got closed because nobody cares it went "stale" due to newer kernel releases (which still contain the bug).

The machine is stable and networking works fine, it's just that your kernel log is rendered useless, which can go from "meh" to "kinda dangerous" (as I routinely use it to diagnose misbehaving/faulty hardware).

Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free
Posted on 19-09-30, 20:59
Post: #96 of 140
Since: 11-01-18

Last post: 20 days
Last view: 1 hour
does the kernel project accept bug reports directly, or just from downstream?
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