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| wertigon |
Posted on 22-02-02, 16:12 (revision 1)
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Post: #180 of 204
Since: 11-24-18 Last post: 23 days Last view: 23 hours |
The problem with the web, as I see it, is three-fold: 1. HTML is all or nothing. There is no way to just reload a part of a website with standard HTML, which, well, SUCKS. I wish AJAX was a built in feature of HTML and you could use both 2. The web is all about apps, not content. Even this webforum is sorta-kinda a webapp. And while yes, Content is still king, if you do not have an app to house that content, handle comments etc, well... Sucks to be you eh? 3. Too few people understand how far HTML and CSS alone can take you. HTML and CSS were built for a medium that is largely extinct - the digital printing press. There is however zero incentive to learn HTML and CSS properly. Instead it's easier to put two layers of $FRAMEWORK_OF_THE_MONTH (be it jQuery, Angular, React...) and... Oh, wait, you need a 4 core machine with 8 GB of RAM to run that? Cool story bro! I have built minimal websites with only AJAX and jQuery that worked just fine once you turned off JavaScript. This was in 2010. Since then everything has gone down the drain, and yes it is time to create a new, app-first centric webbrowser that takes up 10% of the current webbrowser resources. But that will take years to make and of course one of the platforms will be the web itself. :P |
| Kawaoneechan |
Posted on 22-02-02, 16:21
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Dick Duck
 Post: #574 of 598 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 113 days Last view: 8 hours |
Posted by wertigonAJAX and jQuery? Big agree though. |
| desudesu |
Posted on 22-02-02, 17:11 (revision 2)
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Post: #6 of 62
Since: 01-29-22 Last post: 653 days Last view: 653 days |
I'm struggling to figure how a new browser would exist that not only manages to cater to 'web apps' but is also fighting against the Chromopoly (and Mozilla's persistent Google-bribed idiocy), at least without a Big Five company buying out the technology and messing everything up and/or having to start it in the first place. Or something like Mozilla Foundation happening where it starts off fine initially and then gradually gets fucked up to the point where one might as well just use the other product due to declining amounts of reason to cling to it*. Also, try talking ordinary, everyday people into using something other than Chrome. They react with an aura of stubbornness that is generally not to be expected from normies. * This remark does not apply to SeaMonkey, as it actually has purpose unlike modern Firefox. Its slower release cycle with a lack of retarded release numbers could very well honestly be of a good benefit to an enterprise environment, in fact, and speaking of such, I wish features introduced 2 weeks ago would stop being plastered everywhere considering that well, FF ESR exists, SM exists, and places of education and enterprises even sometimes don't keep their Chrome installs entirely in sync with the latest versions... (Semi-unrelated to this subject but the UK is no godsend for home network speeds: it's one of the worst in Europe. The only place you're getting anything above 45-50Mbps download speed is in education/business network connections, as for upload speeds, you'll be averaging about 20-30Mbps. It's laughable to the point 4G is often faster than a Wi-Fi network. Funny how people from USA complain about their internet all the time when looking at speedtest.net threads on most forums they always get over 100Mbps+, what should they be complaining about? And I bet tomman doesn't even get 20Mbps download in the communist shithole he's in. Not that webcunts really care and will continue to develop for their own superfast connections and basically say 'fuck off' to the rest of the world.) |
| CaptainJistuce |
Posted on 22-02-03, 02:05
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Custom title here
 Post: #1051 of 1151 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 19 days Last view: 8 hours |
Posted by wertigon One word: frames. Iframes, if needed. --- In UTF-16, where available. --- |
| wertigon |
Posted on 22-02-04, 20:59 (revision 1)
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Post: #181 of 204
Since: 11-24-18 Last post: 23 days Last view: 23 hours |
Posted by Kawa Needed the jQuery for legacy IE6 support. As IE6 is dead and buried now, only AJAX is required. If you think a little bit, it is possible to make *really* lean and mean things with web... Sadly, noone cares enough to think it through. Noone wants to pay the money that would take, it's easier to just do a 300 MB RAM-eating React monstrosity. Posted by CaptainJistuce Yeah, except you're then trading one ugly pile of hacks for another, and frames simply do not degrade gracefully, and iFrames suck even more. They just break and ruin *everything*. An AJAX-like mechanism is necessary, but it is extremely easy to make a website that has a heavy render (loads everything) and a light render (loads only content) to work simultaneously. The last webapp I was involved in, I freakin' made a JavaScript driven web interface where you could actually middle-click and get a new tab and end up *exactly* where you left off in the other tab, even if it was buried five menu options deep. Would you click that link with JS turned off it would still render since everything was rendered through CSS classes. And it was the same render path and everything, and the exact same link just loaded the information requested if JS was on. And all you had to do to get it to work was type like... It was... Glorious. It brought out exactly the information requested and not a penny more. And all competitors wondered how T.F! we managed our loads with 3x less servers than they. :D Good times. Again though - the "web" is dead, and now I'm just waiting for QT to make a web edition. Or GTK. It's bound to happen. |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-04, 23:37
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Dinosaur
 Post: #1045 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
Posted by wertigon Unfortunately that already exists, and it's called WebAssembly: https://www.qt.io/qt-examples-for-webassembly I do not belong to this world anymore :/ Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-18, 16:18 (revision 1)
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Dinosaur
Post: #1047 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
AGH GiggityCodes broke on our beloved non-Chromistan browsers. AGAIN. GAAAAAAAH!!!!! TWO shiny JavaScript-related breakages on different code hosting places IN THE VERY SAME DAY (yesterday)!!! - GiggityHub: all non-ES2020+ compliant browsers (that is, anything that isn't Chrome®™, a Chrome®™ clone, or latest Firefuxed) are now https://github.com/JustOff/github-wc-polyfill/issues/44 - GiggityLab: they just deployed their latest metric crapload of fancy regexes with named capture groups, which are unlikely to be supported on our "LEGACY DO NOT USE DANGER MINES LIVE PIRANHAS INSIDE" browsers this year. Again, a change introduced in the last few days, but which seems to have came up live in production yesterday. https://github.com/JustOff/github-wc-polyfill/issues/45 If you work as a frontend developer at Giggity(Hub|Lab), or any place where the target is Chrome®™: please kill yourself. No, don't quit, kill yourself. You have helped to damage the web beyond any point of no return. You are SHIT. You chase shiny for the sake of shiny because your life have no meaning. You and me can't be friends, EVER. Hope we don't cross paths ever, otherwise our encounter will not have a happy end. You are a war criminal to me, and deserve to be punished as one. You are a disgrace to software development, computer science, and mankind in general. Yes, I'm more pissed than usual. It's no fun to waste half a day fighting against your very own PC to get shit done just because you didn't chose to follow the path of the shepple. In similar pathetic news of why computers are doomed: https://microsoft.github.io/react-native-windows/blog/2022/02/11/settings It seems Google is silently taking over Microsoft... don't know if I like that. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-18, 19:51 (revision 1)
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Dinosaur
Post: #1048 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
https://github.com/JustOff/github-wc-polyfill/releases/tag/1.2.13 GiggityLab's latest pack of fancy regexes have been successfully neutered... for now. GiggityHub is still... GiggityHub. Apparently there is some breakage specific to SeaMonkey, so I guess I'll be involved into another excruciatingly boring bisect drill, as there are reports that the breakage is NOT on previous SM 2.53.x releases (.9 works, .10 is broken, .11b1 is broken, .12b1pre is broken... maybe a regression?) If you don't mind this guy nearly schizophrenic ranting against IE (it's dead, Jim!), this page neatly resumes why I hate the "modern" web (AKA the Chromeverse™®©(pat.pend)(buttcoin in progress)) http://toastytech.com/about/perfect.html I don't give a flying crap about toy "smart" phones. Get a real computer. One with a proper square screen (4:3 forever!), not a silly short screen. THIS. FUCKING THIS! I wanna marry this guy. But he needs to make a "CHROME IS EVIL!" section now, IE is sooooo last week... Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| desudesu |
Posted on 22-02-18, 21:44 (revision 1)
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Post: #8 of 62
Since: 01-29-22 Last post: 653 days Last view: 653 days |
Reminds me of this:Posted by pigeonsnest.co.uk homepage The first line has been there for donkey's years, but the other part of it was added sometime last year. I don't know what browser he uses now but he was an Opera user during the Presto days. |
| desudesu |
Posted on 22-02-21, 07:03 (revision 2)
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Post: #10 of 62
Since: 01-29-22 Last post: 653 days Last view: 653 days |
@tomman, what extensions are you using other than the aforementioned GitHub polyfill unfucker? I'm presuming JustOff's uBlock Origin port to FailMoon will work on SeaMonkey. On a side note, I wonder if there's any chance somebody will revive the PPA for Ubuntu/Debian users. Would be nice for upgrading between new SM versions on those distros. :P |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-21, 20:01 (revision 1)
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Dinosaur
Post: #1049 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
The addons I use: - Flashblock*: Flash has been dead for over a year but it also works as a video blocker, which is a godsend when my DSL dies and I'm forced to fallback on mobile data. Also, plenty of sites abuse of autoplaying video (hello, JWZ!), and I rarely watch videos nowadays. - Sea Fox*: I love SeaMonkey, but I'm not fond of its Netscape-era UI, and I consider the FF3 UI to be the pinnacle of browser UIs, so Sea Fox allows me to bring back the UI that Mozilla UXtards stole from us. - MonkeyFix*: handy UI tweaks to complete that old FF look'n'feel, and then some. - pdf.js (this SM-specific fork): Despite what Moonchild and Tobin says, I DO need a PDF reader in my web browser, and that's not negotiable. You can't use upstream pdf.js anymore due to obvious reasons, but fortunately this fork exists... too bad it seems to be stagnating! - Old Default Image Style: helps centering images and gets rid of the stupid (to me) black background introduced years ago by Mozilla. Also allows you to customize the default stylesheet used to display images. - Redirector*: A must-have if you can't stand bloaty frontends for Twatter/Medium blogspam, or to force Reddit to stay at the old UI. For Twatter, redirect it to your favorite Nitter instance. For Medium, there are similar crap filters. This keeps the JavaScript back where they belong, at Silly Valley, not in my PC. Please notice that I don't run script blockers (if you abuse with the JavaScripts, that's a site I'm not coming back, EVER), or ad blockers (I firmly believe that ad blocking belongs to the network layer, not to the application layer, so that's why I run the equivalent of a PiHole on my routerbox). Hell, I'm not even a addon lover, I just use as few addons as possible to preserve my personal sanity, not to improve my UX. (* = addons that are dead upstream/discontinued for XUL-based browsers, and require manual hax to get them up and working on recent SeaMonkey releases - a good starting point is this addon converter) Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| desudesu |
Posted on 22-02-21, 23:58
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Post: #16 of 62
Since: 01-29-22 Last post: 653 days Last view: 653 days |
That's useful, thanks! And yeah, bogging down the browser with add-ons for the UI is never a good idea, but everything here looks to be particularly useful.(I firmly believe that ad blocking belongs to the network layer, not to the application layer, so that's why I run the equivalent of a PiHole on my routerbox) Can something roughly equivalent be done via the HOSTS file, or is this a bad idea considering just how many subdomains they tend to use? I don't have the means of doing such a setup where I live. :P |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-22, 01:13
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Dinosaur
Post: #1050 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
The HOSTS file way quickly becomes unmanageable, so nope. If you can't dedicate extra hardware for your DNS filtering solution (be it a Pi, a repurposed old computer running one of the many router distros, or even a beefy consumer WLAN box running custom firmware), you may want to run a proper DNS server on your machine and point your network setup to use 127.0.0.1 for DNS. - For Linux (and all of the *BSDs?), setting up BIND is not that hard. I use this to generate my block lists on a separate RPZ (I also have a special RPZ for blocking Farcebook) - For Windows, sucks to be you. I guess you can run a minimal Linux VM with bridged network access and run BIND there, but that's kinda bloaty IMO. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| Nicholas Steel |
Posted on 22-02-22, 05:47 (revision 2)
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Post: #410 of 426
Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 287 days Last view: 14 days |
I don't know if it works with Palemoon, but I use https://github.com/tom-james-watson/old-reddit-redirect for staying on Old Reddit. It redirects Reddit URL's on pages to point to the old.reddit.com domain. AMD Ryzen 3700X | MSI Gamer Geforce 1070Ti 8GB | 16GB 3600MHz DDR4 RAM | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | Windows 10 x64 |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-23, 22:51
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Dinosaur
Post: #1052 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
Posted by Nicholas Steel That addon ill not work on non-XUL browsers, sadly. And I prefer Redirector anyway as it works on sites other than Reddit - if you can come up with a proper redirect rule (involving wildcards or even regexps), it's pretty much site agnostic. If anyone needs/wants my SM-modded addons, request here and I'll drop a link. In other news... there was indeed a regression: SM picked this Mozilla patch for some CSS feature (ironically, to "match Chrome's behavior"), which breaks GiggityHub's user menu on releases after 2.53.9 with JustOff's addon - this is likely to get reverted and fixed for .12 (or maybe even a .11 point release - too late for .11.0 as it's already building for release!) ...oh, and testing revealed more unimplemented JavaScript crap, which thankfully was an easy backport for the team this time! Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| NTI |
Posted on 22-02-23, 23:40
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 Post: #38 of 40 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 500 days Last view: 500 days |
Posted by tomman That would be awesome, tomman! Gonna be very happy to make use of them all =^-^= |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-24, 22:10
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Dinosaur
Post: #1053 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
Posted by NTI Here you go: https://mega.nz/file/JtkEiaCJ#r-C0iq3Dkej5Dr9wlKgZHD_L5L6d_SvGri65LKvtc7Q I've only included those old FF-specific addons that required mods to be compatible with SeaMonkey at all (Flashblock, Redirector), or SM-specific addons to fix compatibility with recent SM releases due to deprecations and stuff (Sea Fox, MonkeyFix). Dunno if Old Default Image Style required mods, but hey, a backup is always good. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| desudesu |
Posted on 22-02-25, 06:33 (revision 6)
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Post: #24 of 62
Since: 01-29-22 Last post: 653 days Last view: 653 days |
Oh thanks for that! I was looking around for those a while back, might be useful in future. I should really get compa.moe running again and maybe make some crappy HTML page for archiving SeaMonkey extensions lol. (Also, I think quote pyramid prevention is broken. It removes the closing quote tags, but not the beginning.) EDIT 2: So I actually did get compa.moe running again, and was using SeaMonkey Composer... I noticed that it was adding the following invalid HTML attribute to anchor tags: moz-do-not-send="true" This a bug or something else? |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-25, 20:05
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Dinosaur
Post: #1054 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
Posted by desudesu Wow, people out there still use Composer :D Anyway, I tried looking for the moz-do-not-send attribute, and all I can find is references to Thunderbird: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/56827235/what-does-moz-do-not-send-do Posted by "A Stackoverflow" I could reply it here but I'm not sure if it is a bug or something else, but in any case this looks odd as we're not on Thunderbird/Mail&News... Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| tomman |
Posted on 22-02-26, 15:39
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Dinosaur
Post: #1055 of 1285 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 22 days Last view: 18 hours |
From Team SeaMonkey:[16:01] tomman Got a message from someone that actually uses Composer So... it's a quirk of Gecko editor which is mainly used these days for email. Will only impact you if you want 100% Valid HTML™, but you can always edit your HTML manually to strip off that useless attribute. Not going to be fixed unless someone brings an archeologist. Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
