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Posted on 19-11-18, 01:38

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Posted by sureanem
I think you dislike these figures because they go all-in and obtain results.

Trump. Results. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Oh wait, you're serious? Trump has provably done the least of any president in modern history. You can't blame it on congressional stalemate--he had two full years with support of both houses and accomplished nothing. He had to steal money from emergency response funds to start building his "wall," and it's been calculated that putting the money towards hiring more border control workers and increasing patrols would have a significantly greater effect, as well as creating jobs. They couldn't come up with a health care plan that was feasible, so they settled on reversing previous legislation, but that didn't pass because even the Republicans couldn't shine a good light on it.

Trump: "But no one wants to do anything but impeachment hearings!" Well, then, since you claim to have nothing to hide, pass along all the requested information and get it over with. Tax returns have been released by every president in the past, so why fabricate excuses to not release them? It's dragging on so long because nobody is complying with subpoenas and are violating the law on the White House's orders (and because of vague threats). It's not going to pass the Senate. The Republicans there have already confirmed they don't care what Trump did and will vote against his removal. Impeachment was a political mistake, forced because of outrage from the far-left. So just pass the information on and we can have it finished quickly.
Posted on 19-11-18, 06:55
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Tangentally, the parts of "the wall" that've been built already have holes in them because yes, mexicans can work power tools.

Also, Trump doesn't think the Texas border needs a wall because the Rio Grande is an effective barrier. Spoilers: mexicans can swim, and it ain't that big a river once agriculture's done draining it.

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Posted on 19-11-18, 14:41 (revision 2)
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Posted by CaptainJistuce
I remember vividly it being taught in schools and how the French Revolution was a victory for human rights, etc, etc.

[drawing of guillotine execution]

Yeah they just glossed over that part, like when they talked about Darwin in biology class and claimed he played an important role in debunking scientific racism but just had the poor fortune of living in the wrong age, or about Athenian democracy or the Russian revolution or really any of these concepts.

You could claim it is just a matter of retconning and that nobody is expected to take it seriously, but that seems a bit cynical, even by my standards. Although it probably would be a far better use of everyone's time to spend school hours teaching outright absurdities with absolutely no basis in reality, Cunningham's law and all.

Posted by BearOso
Trump. Results. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Oh wait, you're serious? Trump has provably done the least of any president in modern history. You can't blame it on congressional stalemate--he had two full years with support of both houses and accomplished nothing. [...]

Trump: "But no one wants to do anything but impeachment hearings!" Well, then, since you claim to have nothing to hide, pass along all the requested information and get it over with. [...] Impeachment was a political mistake, forced because of outrage from the far-left. So just pass the information on and we can have it finished quickly.

Results in getting elected, that is. He's revitalized the conservative movement, which is about the sum total of his achievements thus far.

I agree that he has been incompetent with regard to implementing his desired border policies, that border security could be achieved without a wall or additional funding (in fact without funding at all) with only minor legislative tweaks, and that he has failed in most of the rest of his agenda as well. Some of the blame rests on his advisors, although his notoriously poor taste in them was priced in from the get-go.

It's inaccurate to characterize him as having "support of both houses" - he was held back by traitors within his own ranks, and never controlled both the Senate and the House at any given time.

I still maintain that he revitalized the Republican party. Had he not done this, the West would have found itself in a far more precarious situation looking forward than it does today. So we are still looking at a net positive sum total.

As for the impeachment, why finish it quickly? As they say, never interrupt your opponent while he is making a mistake.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-11-18, 17:59

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Posted by sureanem

I still maintain that he revitalized the Republican party.

Please explain. How has he revitalized the Republican party?

As for the impeachment, why finish it quickly? As they say, never interrupt your opponent while he is making a mistake.

I don't think it's a mistake that benefits anyone. It just wastes time and energy.
Posted on 19-11-18, 18:18
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Posted by BearOso
Posted by sureanem

I still maintain that he revitalized the Republican party.

Please explain. How has he revitalized the Republican party?

As for the impeachment, why finish it quickly? As they say, never interrupt your opponent while he is making a mistake.

I don't think it's a mistake that benefits anyone. It just wastes time and energy.

What, you haven't read all the stories about the "new Republican Party in the age of Trump" and whatnot?

Before Trump, it was essentially sliding into convergence. It had caved on issue after issue, and on many points was already indistinguishable from the Democrats. This is the first time it reverts this decline, however slowly. If it doesn't, then it's doomed to fall into irrelevance as a national political force. With the current state of affairs, such a development would likely be permanent. That is what I mean.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-11-18, 23:50
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You are obviously completely ignorant of american politics, as you paint an alternate-reality picture that lacks the most miniscule thread to tie it to our reality.

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Posted on 19-11-19, 00:08
Stirrer of Shit
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How rude. I stay reasonably well-informed on current affairs. You're free to tell me what specific characterization it is you object to.

Republicans caving on immigration and other social issues?
That border security could be accomplished for $0 with only the support of the House and local judiciary?
Trump being a staunch social conservative?
RINO politicians like Mitt Romney and Mrs. John McCain expressing how they feel the party is no longer theirs?
Republican candidates slated to become unelectable within the next half-century?

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-11-19, 00:24
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Literally your entire post was disconnected from reality. And it continues.

I don't even know where to start.

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Posted on 19-11-19, 01:49
Stirrer of Shit
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Surely you at least agree on Trump being a staunch social conservative?

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-11-19, 02:09 (revision 1)
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Posted by sureanem
Surely you at least agree on Trump being a staunch social conservative?

Surely you are not being serious, because he isn't. Pussy grabbing, and wanton bragging about such isn't social conservatism. You don't have to go far to find a social conservative in the white house, just take a good look at Pence.
Posted on 19-11-19, 02:14

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Posted by sureanem

What, you haven't read all the stories about the "new Republican Party in the age of Trump" and whatnot?

Before Trump, it was essentially sliding into convergence. It had caved on issue after issue, and on many points was already indistinguishable from the Democrats. This is the first time it reverts this decline, however slowly. If it doesn't, then it's doomed to fall into irrelevance as a national political force. With the current state of affairs, such a development would likely be permanent. That is what I mean.

No, I haven’t read any stories like that. Please elaborate or point me to those. Your last paragraph doesn’t say anything but “it declined, then resurged.” What specifically did this entail?

Posted by sureanem
Surely you at least agree on Trump being a staunch social conservative?

He cheated on his wives with porn stars and has been married three times. He’s definitely not socially conservative. The budget deficit has been increasing, so he’s not very fiscally conservative, either. What kind of conservative is he?
Posted on 19-11-19, 02:20
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He's gotta be SOME kind of conservative because the liberals hate him!
...
Oh, so do the conservatives? Well, shit. Maybe he's just a terrible human.

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Posted on 19-11-19, 03:47
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Posted by CaptainJistuce
He's gotta be SOME kind of conservative because the liberals hate him!
...
Oh, so do the conservatives? Well, shit. Maybe he's just a terrible human.
Now we're getting somewhere.

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Posted on 19-11-19, 08:49
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>He’s definitely not socially conservative.

That's a strong defense of gender roles.

>[S]ocial conservatism arose as a response to [...] [the] civil rights [movement], the abolition of the death penalty, LGBT rights and abortion

He's certainly very conservative on most aforementioned matters. More importantly, on those issues where most already caved. To vigilantly defend the uncontroversial isn't hard, resisting pressure on the controversial is.

Saying Pence et al are conservative overlooks the macro: Romney started arguing about binders; Trump stated outright: you'll have equal pay if you do as good a job.

>He's gotta be SOME kind of conservative because the liberals hate him!
>...
>Oh, so do the conservatives? Well, shit. Maybe he's just a terrible human.

Him drawing the alleged conservatives' ire shows my point - he stands up for what they'd abandoned, and does so well, unlike e.g. the 1964 attempt, thus forcing the GOP (who being politicians are invertebrate) to go along.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-11-19, 12:16
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People in this thread talking about Trump's policies as if he has some kind of interest in or opinion of what other people do, other than whether they admire him or not.

In a way, he's very nearly the ultimate democratic leader - any hare-brained idea that flickers through the collective id of the electorate, he'll act on - at least until some other, contradictory idea comes to the fore. Of course he can't poll the electorate directly, so he depends on other people's reports of what will make him popular, and since there is considerable political power in having the king's ear, those reports are sadly not as direct and unbiased as we'd like.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 19-11-19, 17:38

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Posted by sureanem

Him drawing the alleged conservatives' ire shows my point - he stands up for what they'd abandoned, and does so well, unlike e.g. the 1964 attempt, thus forcing the GOP (who being politicians
are invertebrate) to go along.

Maybe they abandoned those values when they realized they were hateful and not for the good of humanity? Being conservative doesn't mean never admitting you made mistakes in the past. The intent is to conserve what is good.


That's a strong defense of gender roles.

Do you agree with him on this--that women are inferior?
Posted on 19-11-19, 18:25
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Posted by BearOso
Do you agree with him on this--that women are inferior?
Fair but stern warning to sureanem: your next post may determine your final fate on this board.
Posted on 19-11-19, 20:45
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I have never once stated in this thread that I agree with the current American president, just that he was effective at rejuvenating the Republican party. Those two aren't the same thing. For instance, I freely admit–and I sure hope this doesn't get me banned–that the other politician with whom he is often compared was very skilled at politics. This does not necessarily imply that I agree with him.

Furthermore, it is not even necessary to agree with someone to support them. I have never voted for a centrist party in my entire life. You find the most extreme candidate, and then you vote for them. Takes fifteen minutes at most. Even if you're a centrist, the end result will be an average between you and a few million others, so you best make your ballot count.

I have stated that before women are worse ("inferior") at chess and soccer, and I stand by those assertions. That's probably not what you're asking about though, so you'll have to clarify your question before I can answer it.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
Posted on 19-11-19, 21:34

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Posted by sureanem
I have never once stated in this thread that I agree with the current American president, just that he was effective at rejuvenating the Republican party. Those two aren't the same thing. For instance, I freely admit–and I sure hope this doesn't get me banned–that the other politician with whom he is often compared was very skilled at politics. This does not necessarily imply that I agree with him.

Furthermore, it is not even necessary to agree with someone to support them. I have never voted for a centrist party in my entire life. You find the most extreme candidate, and then you vote for them. Takes fifteen minutes at most. Even if you're a centrist, the end result will be an average between you and a few million others, so you best make your ballot count.

Support is affirmation of actions. A parallel would be a 1940s German man saying "I don't agree with Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews, but I support him because he's really effective at getting it done!"

Acknowledging Hitler's control of the populace in a retrospective manner is also completely different from allowing and approving negativity and hostility in the present.
Posted on 19-11-19, 22:19
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Right, poor use of words there. Support not used to mean "being a supporter of," but rather "giving support to".

The accurate comparison would be a man looking at 1930s Germany, thinking, "OK, this is a bit too left-wing for my tastes," and then voting for Hitler since he's the furthest right candidate you can find and you want to shift society rightward.

If you look at it mathematically: your ballot is just a number n you select between -1.0 and 1.0. The electoral outcome is the average of all ballots. Assuming you know the projected outcome, why would you ever cast a ballot where -1.0 < n < 1.0? Either your desired outcome is below the projected outcome, and then you vote 1.0, or it's above, and then you vote -1.0.

There was a certain photograph about which you had a hallucination. You believed that you had actually held it in your hands. It was a photograph something like this.
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