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| Views: 850,165 | 04-25-24, 12:40 pm | ||
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| Views: 850,165 | 04-25-24, 12:40 pm | ||
| Poll | |
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| Well? | |
| Keep it as-is | |
| Do it like in the other shot | |
| I have a better idea (in a reply) | |
| 4 users have voted so far | |
| Kawa |
Posted on 04-14-13, 10:03 pm
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<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets
 Posts: 238/344 Since: 06-08-12 Last post: 1697 days Last view: 1237 days |
I never said I was an expert in color theory. I merely know a bit or two about it, and said I can barely see any difference. What I do know is what contrast is. There was a painter once, in olden times. A cobbler came by and saw the painter's latest work. He noticed there was something wrong with a sandal depicted in the painting, and informed the painter. When the painter had corrected the error, the cobbler started pointing out percieved flaws in the anatomy of the wearer's leg. You came here to write. I'd like to note that I am not angry, despite how you might interpret my replies so far. I'm at worst annoyed. Crissa: that might be possible. I don't just program Noxico... |
| mazterlith |
Posted on 04-14-13, 10:14 pm (revision 1)
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Posts: 10/33 Since: 04-11-13 Last post: 3984 days Last view: 3960 days |
I can say that too much contrast is bad. I know I change the color scheme on Dwarf Fortress while using ascii because the brown that is default looks like shit and is easier on my eyes when I change it. Earthy tones are a good direction to move in anyway because the more contrasty you get, the less natural it will seem. However, you the boss.
Hi! Life treating you well? |
| Kawa |
Posted on 04-14-13, 10:15 pm
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<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets
Posts: 240/344 Since: 06-08-12 Last post: 1697 days Last view: 1237 days |
I'd probably have to crank up the background value a bit if I'm gonna give Crissa back the noise. I don't just program Noxico... |
| PillowShout |
Posted on 04-14-13, 10:56 pm
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Posts: 102/105 Since: 12-06-12 Last post: 4027 days Last view: 4009 days |
That cobbler remark was an unqualified, passive-aggressive jab, so I'm sure you can understand why I'm a little miffed. You seem to assume I don't know anything about the look or feel of a game or really anything to do with game design of any kind. I have to ask then, what makes you so much more qualified than me to discuss these things? You put this up here presumably to draw opinions and invite discussion, and that's fine. Even if you don't agree with me and ultimately decide that you're going to go in your new direction, heedless of my concerns as you usually do, then that's also fine. Feel free. But shutting me out of the discussion entirely by presuming that I know nothing about the topic at hand? That's where I start getting irritated, and that's where I begin to wonder if putting up with your stranglehold on the design of this project is worth putting up with anymore. You want people to work with you? Then start listening to them when they have something to say. Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br> |
| Kawa |
Posted on 04-14-13, 11:23 pm (revision 1)
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<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets
Posts: 242/344 Since: 06-08-12 Last post: 1697 days Last view: 1237 days |
First of all, you're "miffed"? I've been miffed (using that exact word, no less) for at least a month now, because you did join the project as a writer. The code you then wrote, at the very least was related to that task, and I kept hoping all that time you'd get out of whatever funk it was that made you switch to coding so maybe the recurring problem that killed every single other project of mine might not come to pass yet again. So excuse me for trying to push you back into a writing role! I'd have been more aggressive much earlier if I didn't care about other people going through (and I quote) crap in their lives. And I'm not even supposed to be able to do that! Second, you keep saying I'm assuming this or that, and claiming I said you know nothing about design. What I did was honestly try to understand a welcomed suggestion, so I could consider it on its own merits. Failing that, I asked for a mock screenshot, and I stated the simple fact that I honestly can't see much of a fucking difference between that and what we started with, so of course I'd shoot it down. Compare that with Crissa's suggestion, which could actually work. Especially if you consider mazterlith's remark. I'd gladly build another mockup matching that description to see what that'd look like, to go with all the rest including yours, and then judge that on its own merits. Might even add in some dropped items while I'm at it to see if Crissa's concern about them is justified. I didn't need to do all that for your suggestion because you provided your own mockup, and it's safe to say you'd know best what you meant. And what you meant is simply too close to the starting point to make any difference. If anyone in this thread is presuming anything, it's you. I don't just program Noxico... |
| mazterlith |
Posted on 04-14-13, 11:27 pm
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Posts: 13/33 Since: 04-11-13 Last post: 3984 days Last view: 3960 days |
I'm probably butting in here at my own behest, but please both of you calm down. You are only feeding off of each other's frustration and it's up to both of you defuse the situation from your end.
Hi! Life treating you well? |
| PillowShout |
Posted on 04-14-13, 11:57 pm (revision 3)
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Posts: 103/105 Since: 12-06-12 Last post: 4027 days Last view: 4009 days |
You want to know why I stopped writing? It's because in addition to the stress from recently becoming unemployed, I was frustrated by my apparent lack of creative influence over the project. Programming is cathartic for me and a great way to unwind, and I figured that if I could work on areas that you weren't already focusing on, I could at least have an iota of creative control. I mean, I can understand your frustrations about bringing me on as a writer and then having me switch to code, I get that, honestly. But what you have to understand is that every time I criticized one of your ideas, you chose instead to shoot my ideas down, ultimately ignored my opinions and took no action to find a compromise or middle ground. This is something that I find intensely frustrating and a good part of the reason why I found it difficult to write anything. I understand that not every one of my ideas are going to be good ones, and frankly most of them may be terrible, but the problem I have with how you respond to them is that you just pick them apart and then declare them unsuitable. If you had truly intended to make a qualified decision at the end when all suggestions had been made, then just say so and leave all your judgments until the very end. Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br> |
| Kawa |
Posted on 04-15-13, 12:19 am
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<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets
Posts: 243/344 Since: 06-08-12 Last post: 1697 days Last view: 1237 days |
If that was truly the case, that you stopped because you felt a lack of creative influence, perhaps it would've been better to actually say so way back then instead of merely saying you had "crap to deal with". If you had said back then that it was because you feel I was cramping your input, the crap could've been "resolved" right then and there. Instead, you left me to fill in some vague-ass reason ("Must be something about his personal life or something. I'd be more okay with that if it hadn't been used as a lame excuse so often before", if you must know) and not know that I was the goddamn problem all along. And now you tell me this? Those description methods you cooked up? I like 'em so much, a recent commit makes more use of them. So tell me again how I shoot down every fucking thing. In other news, here's what I came up with, based on Crissa and mazterlith's posts:  Noise is back, ground is a bit brighter, but not so much that the clutter doesn't stand out well enough. I tested it on my mother, who could make out the plants as well as the difference between the sand outside and the wood inside from a reasonable distance away -- roughly... at least three times my viewing distance, but I'll admit I'm no good at distance. I don't just program Noxico... |
| PillowShout |
Posted on 04-15-13, 12:35 am (revision 4)
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Posts: 104/105 Since: 12-06-12 Last post: 4027 days Last view: 4009 days |
I'm not saying that you didn't let me change anything, I'm saying that anytime we disagreed about something, you always decided that I was wrong and then just did things your way. As for not telling you what my problem was, you're right, I should have brought this up sooner and I'm sorry about that, but I honestly figured that if I had, you would have just told me that I should either stick to writing or to get off the project. I know that is also an unfair assumption and probably isn't what you would actually do, but the thing I have to ask then is, if you did know about this from the start, what would you have done differently? Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br> |
| mazterlith |
Posted on 04-15-13, 12:45 am
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Posts: 14/33 Since: 04-11-13 Last post: 3984 days Last view: 3960 days |
Looks much better, I like it.
Hi! Life treating you well? |
| Kawa |
Posted on 04-15-13, 02:08 pm
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<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets
Posts: 245/344 Since: 06-08-12 Last post: 1697 days Last view: 1237 days |
Thank you. I wonder what Crissa'd think of it. If Crissa agrees with you, I can either implement it, or use it for another iteration. PillowShout, if you'd told me back then, I'd say it go something like this. I'd probably say I'm sorry to hear about the unemployment and wish you good luck on resolving that issue. It's the best I could do on that regard, and now that I know of it, I actually do feel that way about it. I'd be surprised to hear the other reason, and assuming I couldn't imagine any instances that'd be quite that bad, I'd ask for an example, to clarify. Being a stern boss is one thing, but a bad boss won't do. If it's a silly thing, say... a misunderstanding, if I'd recognize it as such I'd say so, maybe go over what was said and actually meant. If it were more serious, I'd take a seat right over there and try to discuss it in a reasonably civil manner. Maybe I'd suggest taking the discussion elsewhere, like... I dunno, IRC or something? Then we'd talk about why you feel I work against you, and why I actually do the things I do. You might suggest something that goes against things I'd have planned months before, and could potentially require rewriting up to half the game. Even if it'd be a really good idea on its own, I'd have to disagree. Just for the writing, I already had to make a design concession on how the sex scenes play out, way before you came on board. You can still see the remains of my original idea in SceneSystem.cs. The original idea was to be a bit more dynamic and non-linear than CoC, but I guess that's what you get when one of the first writers is a CoC writer. I don't just program Noxico... |
| PillowShout |
Posted on 04-15-13, 03:15 pm (revision 2)
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Posts: 105/105 Since: 12-06-12 Last post: 4027 days Last view: 4009 days |
You know funnily enough, I actually tried to make my own more dynamic version of the scene system about a month ago. :LOL: Looking back at what was actually said, I realized they there weren't actually any big issues of contention aside from the world map and maybe this one. I think a good part of how I felt yesterday was probably due to stress more than anything and I was probably just seeing enemies where there weren't any. So, I'm sorry about that and how I acted, and I think that from now on I'm going to air any grievances I have immediately rather than later. I guess my big frustration from both of these issues is that when we disagreed, our discussions just devolved into ridiculous technical arguments that don't even bother to address the actual issue, which is game design. I suppose what I'd like in the future is for us to address these topics at a purely design level, and for you to explain to me why to design you've chosen isn't superior from a technical standpoint, but rather how you feel that it makes the game better and why you feel the game needs to be changed this way. Alright, now that that's been said, I'd like to explain to you why I think taking the role as executive director may be hurting your progress on these projects. I know you look at yourself like the boss, and I'm not going to dispute that view, but the problem with taking that position is that it essentially just makes me and anyone else who works on the project a laborer. The problem with having labor though is that it needs to be compensated in some way, and for a voluntary project like this, there are really only a few meaningful types of compensation. One of which is exposure, but due to the lack of exposure that this game has, that isn't really an option here. The next is constructive feedback on what was made, but again that's not really an option as there aren't enough people here to provide that feedback. The last type is that feeling of creative joy that you get when you design something and see it come through the way you wanted to. The problem with that last one of course is that it also means you have to be willing share creative control on the project, which I know that you don't want to. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that in order for me to be happy in my role of being a writer and therefor a laborer, I need some form of meaningful compensation. If I don't have that, then I'm just going to end up feeling unfulfilled and frustrated for as long as I have to take that role. If you think that you can come up with some other scheme that adequately compensates me for my time, then I will gladly try to work something out with you, but until then, I can't really see myself doing any kind of writing for you. Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br> |
