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Main » Suggestion Box » Contrast
Poll
Well?
Keep it as-is
 0
Do it like in the other shot
 3
I have a better idea (in a reply)
 1
4 users have voted so far
Pages: 12 »
Posted on 04-14-13, 03:57 pm (revision 1)
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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#rgrd's Trihook talked to me about contrast and such. Mostly because, as a good example, the cacti in this shot are hard to see. So are the plants in the houses proper.


Working from a copy, I produced this alternative shot:


UI is missing because this is a screenshot of an HTML dump, because I get higher turnaround from testing that way. The noise is mostly gone because we have those rocks and cacti now, and trees and stuff in other biomes.

Edit:

Dark effect would be like this.

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:12 pm

 

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I do think the higher contrast generally looks better; my only concern is day-night cycles, as it's dark enough that it might end up looking like it's constantly night. (Of course given that this is a world under threat by demons and such constant dark clouds is probably pretty logical... :P)
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:14 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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I should've mentioned that in the OP, but I'm considering to denote darkness by drawing those spots of the map in dark(er) purple and blue.

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:17 pm (revision 2)

 

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I'm not at all fond of that horrible shade of brown, but I can definitely see the need for some better contrast.

My suggestion then is to use a simple color space transformation for the clutter themselves. All you'd need to do is change the Value of the clutter's foreground color in HSV space so that it at least some distance away from the Value of the background color of tile.

For example, lets assume we require that the foreground color of a piece of clutter cannot be within 10 points of Value from its background. We then come across a tile where the Value of the background is 47 and the Value of the foreground is 44. To fix this, all we have to do is change the Value of the foreground to either 37 or 57 and that's it, problem solved. :D

This way, the color of the foreground isn't affected that much, the color of the background isn't affected at all, and you have a very general solution that can be applied to pretty much anything!

What do you think?

Edit: Changed to reflect proper terminology

Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br>
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:23 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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I'm thinking we have a terminology problem here. What do you mean by "decal"?

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:35 pm (revision 1)

 

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Sorry, I mean the stuff like cactuses, trees, rocks and the like. I didn't know if you had a distinct term for them.

Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br>
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:38 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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They are clutter. With a lowercase c because Clutter is a kind of Entity that may be removed in some way to reveal the ground, whereas the rocks and plants and such are part of a Board's Tile map.

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:45 pm (revision 1)

 

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Ok, edited my first post. Let me know what you think.


Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br>
Posted on 04-14-13, 08:48 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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I... don't know what to think, to be honest. If you could provide a shop or something of the intended effect...

To be honest I'd rather wait for more votes.

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:09 pm (revision 1)

 

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The changes are pretty subtle, so just compare them with the original.



Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br>
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:12 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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Rather too subtle, if you ask me...

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:15 pm

 

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Well, sometimes subtle problems need subtle solutions. ;) You could increase the contrast further if you wanted to, but I can see them just fine as they are.

Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br>
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:19 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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I could see them fine in the original shot. Further increasing the contrast to such a degree that anyone could make out that there's something in the way and thus not grind against a cactus and inadvertently reenact Custer's Revenge until gameover is what got me the second screenshot in the first place. Cobbler, stick to thy last. Please.

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:28 pm

 

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Ok, but the problem I have with the solution you provided in the second shot is that it is way too heavy handed for the problem. Essentially, what you're doing is the just exact opposite of what I'm suggesting. Where my idea is to simply adjust the contrast levels of the clutter, your solution changes the contrast level of the entire board.

Another issue with what you're suggesting is: what happens when you have clutter that has a similar tone to the new board colors? Once again, you're going to have contrast issues.

Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br>
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:38 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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It changes the contrast of the entire board to something not unlike most non-tiled roguelikes, even relatively new ones.

As for your hypothetical scenario: right now there are no real rules as to the brightness of clutter, and that of the ground. There would be two in the new system. The floor must be dark, and the clutter relatively bright.

The rock in the top left has a lightness of ~30% according to a quick Dragonfly color sampling. That's pretty dark, but you can still see it clearly against the ground's 9%. The cactus is merely 34% and sticks out clearly. The stripes on the ground go up to about 21%, but aren't very big and share a hue with their background so it's pretty clear what they're about.

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:46 pm

 

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Posted by KawaIt changes the contrast of the entire board to something not unlike most non-tiled roguelikes, even relatively new ones.


That looks entirely too blue.

Hi! Life treating you well?
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:48 pm (revision 1)

 

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Just because other rogue-likes have higher contrast environments doesn't change the fact that the second picture just looks like everything is now covered in mud.

And as for my scenario, my system still solves the problem better because it doesn't introduce any arbitrary restrictions on the color or brightness of the foreground or background. All it does is change them when they need to be changed and nothing else.

Lead writer on Noxico (and sometimes programmer or designer) <br>
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:50 pm
<i>Prophet of Celestia</i><br>Baka on the streets, senpai in the sheets

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And it's still too damn subtle to make any appreciable difference. Do you know what "cobbler, stick to thy last" means?

Posted by mazterlithThat looks entirely too blue.
Yeah but that's just Brogue being an example of high-contrast non-graphical roguelikes. You should see when there's a gas explosion.

I don't just program Noxico...
Posted on 04-14-13, 09:54 pm (revision 1)

 

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And you're saying that you're somehow an expert on color theory? I don't need someone else to tell me when something looks like shit, and that sir, looks like shit.

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Posted on 04-14-13, 10:00 pm


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The clutter in the second shot would make finding dropped items harder. Which to me is more interesting, game-wise.

I did like the varied background tones... If you could do both of these at the same time, I'd be all for it.

As is, I don't see one as being better than the other.

-Crissa
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