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MAME is such a pain in the ass 
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Caedhros wrote:
The current method for non cpu hardware is a full discrete logic simulation using net lists. If you pull up the rom for pong in the current set it's just a net list. Mame has a library of various discrete logic chips and opamps, etc that can be assembled together into a working machine. Certain games use this same system just for audio effects, like donkey Kong.


I see, I'll do some reading on net lists.

Regarding games that use discrete logic for audio, I believe for certain games like Q-Bert they use to "emulate" those sounds with wav samples for a very long time. Nice to see those aren't needed anymore thanks to discrete sound emulation.

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2018-06-22 17:37

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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Some games still use samples either because the audio circuit isn't known, or the components aren't simulated yet. In the case of qbert, the original cabinet made the knock sound when you die by firing a real pinball coil into a metal plate, the same as a free game in a pinball machine.


2018-06-22 18:38
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Yeah, for strictly mechanical noises -like some part knocking on something, then there really isn't any other choice but to use samples. Though for Q-Bert I believe even the actual in-game sound effects; Q-bert's "cursing", jumping off the stage, some enemies etc also used to require samples because the Votrax chip wasn't emulated back then.

Looks like that change was made around 0.181
http://mamedev.org/?p=435

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2018-06-22 21:09
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Caedhros wrote:
Some games still use samples either because the audio circuit isn't known, or the components aren't simulated yet. In the case of qbert, the original cabinet made the knock sound when you die by firing a real pinball coil into a metal plate, the same as a free game in a pinball machine.

Unemulatable: you can FEEL QBert fall if your leg is against the front of the cabinet.

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2018-06-23 04:34

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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
CaptainJistuce wrote:
Caedhros wrote:
Some games still use samples either because the audio circuit isn't known, or the components aren't simulated yet. In the case of qbert, the original cabinet made the knock sound when you die by firing a real pinball coil into a metal plate, the same as a free game in a pinball machine.

Unemulatable: you can FEEL QBert fall if your leg is against the front of the cabinet.



Not quite true. Mame has an output system for non audio/video functions such as game controlled blinking lights or other functions. You could in theory hook up a knocker coil to your pc and have mame trigger it when needed (although I'm not sure if that is hooked up to qbert or not currently)


2018-06-23 07:56
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Caedhros wrote:
CaptainJistuce wrote:
Caedhros wrote:
Some games still use samples either because the audio circuit isn't known, or the components aren't simulated yet. In the case of qbert, the original cabinet made the knock sound when you die by firing a real pinball coil into a metal plate, the same as a free game in a pinball machine.

Unemulatable: you can FEEL QBert fall if your leg is against the front of the cabinet.



Not quite true. Mame has an output system for non audio/video functions such as game controlled blinking lights or other functions. You could in theory hook up a knocker coil to your pc and have mame trigger it when needed (although I'm not sure if that is hooked up to qbert or not currently)

I concede it is TECHNICALLY reproducable, just not PRACTICALLY so, as it requires you to construct an arcade cabinet and then mount a solenoid that will be used in very few cases.

The solenoid actually does a surprisingly good job of creating the illusion that your little sprite dude just fell all the way to the bottom of the cabinet and landed rather hard, incidentally. It is a shame that most people will never get to experience it.

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2018-06-23 10:30
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Yeah, that's one thing good about MAME.

I wonder if you could recreate a functional moving cabinet for say, Afterburner this way...That'd be nuts. Though even if you could I doubt anyone would be insane (and rich) enough to try, just so you could get the "fully immersive" experience of a kinda mediocre game (even for the time).

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2018-06-23 13:14
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Broseph wrote:
Yeah, that's one thing good about MAME.

I wonder if you could recreate a functional moving cabinet for say, Afterburner this way...That'd be nuts. Though even if you could I doubt anyone would be insane (and rich) enough to try, just so you could get the "fully immersive" experience of a kinda mediocre game (even for the time).

In fairness, said cabinet could easily be repurposed for other games like Star Wars Arcade or something.

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2018-06-23 20:59
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
Broseph wrote:
Yeah, that's one thing good about MAME.

I wonder if you could recreate a functional moving cabinet for say, Afterburner this way...That'd be nuts. Though even if you could I doubt anyone would be insane (and rich) enough to try, just so you could get the "fully immersive" experience of a kinda mediocre game (even for the time).

Better to just buy an original Afterburner cab.

Also, to be clear, the Afterburner motion cab is for posers. Galaxy Force is where it is at.

Or G-LOC R360.

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2018-06-24 04:40
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 Re: MAME is such a pain in the ass
neologix wrote:
In fairness, said cabinet could easily be repurposed for other games like Star Wars Arcade or something.


From what I seen the cockpit cabinet looks indeed fairly similar in design (though it doesn't look like the SWA cockpit cabinet moved)
Atari Star Wars Programmer Greg Rivera Interview

CaptainJistuce wrote:
Better to just buy an original Afterburner cab.

Also, to be clear, the Afterburner motion cab is for posers. Galaxy Force is where it is at.

Or G-LOC R360.


I'm surprised the R-360 cabinet was a thing. Reading the article it seems more like a small amusement ride than a coin op game. Just in terms of potential liability if someone broke something or got hurt -even with all the safety features in place, it just seem like it would have been more trouble than it was worth if someone was an arcade operator/owner back then.

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2018-06-24 16:13
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