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The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen. 
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Joined: Tue 13 Sep 2011, 14:54:16

Posts: 779
Post The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.


I said "wow" more than the doge meme watching this.

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 08:51:13

Joined: Tue 21 Feb 2012, 05:42:15

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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
I was expecting to see something that didn't really throw any red flags to me, being someone who does not do hardware at all. Holy shit. Why does this guy insist on submerging everything into hotglue?!

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 09:12:17

Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 15:00:08

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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
Soldered wires are extremely temperamental and delicate. Hot glue is a simple way to ensure stability, especially when shipping something. I hot glued my SNES Jr RGB mod, and I always fill the insides of my connector mods with glue.

Given, this guy used like ten sticks' worth on the system, which makes servicing it a nightmare.

Hot glue is however pretty easy to remove, if you rub it with isopropyl alcohol.

But $400 for an NES RGB mod, god damn. And for all that money, they supposedly don't even support color emphasis modes.

I think the video guy went out of his way to throw a fit about everything. Missing the middle screws and having a connector upside down may not be the height of professional, but this is after all mod-work, not industrial work. You'll say you expect more for $400, but I'd expect a free XRGB-mini for a $400 order. Color issues when using two outputs simultaneously similarly does not surprise me, it's probably pulling too much power or something. Who does that? One or the other works, that's fine by me.

Even the hot glue mess. Yes, it was an absolute mess, and poorly done (but what do you expect? Any trained professional EE won't be wasting his time modding consoles), but it did at least work. The real what the fuck, was why he used resistors on the RGB lines. Resistors obviously dim the picture. I have to use them on my SNES Jr, but they cause a dark picture with the other models. That should have been caught right away, and is probably the most amateur mistake in the entire thing.

Caps on RGB lines are an odd thing as well. Some of my SNES consoles need them, some do not. I hear it makes the picture fuzzier, but my eyes aren't adept enough to notice that, at least not without running a side-by-side comparison. I'd probably test that RGB cable with and without them, and not just blindly follow the standard SNES SCART cable design.

Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:25:34
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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
- Transistors boost color. Not resistors or caps.
- Coming from a guy who did wire management on networks and does EE stuff, wire management in these conoles is easy. Got a bunch of wires going from an amp to a DIN-8 socket? Twist them around each other and zip tie them a few times.
- Hot glue to secure wires at the attachment point is understandable. Same with securing caps against vibration or isolating work areas. Anywhere else is weird. Especially in securing wires. You use paper tape for that since it doesn't leave the residue that electrical tape does.
- Heat shrink the soldered connections on cables and terminal wires.
-Don't tie your s-video and RGB from the same power source.

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:48:47

Joined: Tue 21 Feb 2012, 05:42:15

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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
It's not the use of hot glue that's baffling to me - it's just the way it's utterly haphazardly everywhere. Such a mess...

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 12:03:08

Joined: Wed 06 May 2009, 04:13:19

Posts: 4543
Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
Dear lord, that's horrifying.


byuu wrote:
I think the video guy went out of his way to throw a fit about everything. Missing the middle screws and having a connector upside down may not be the height of professional, but this is after all mod-work, not industrial work. You'll say you expect more for $400, but I'd expect a free XRGB-mini for a $400 order. Color issues when using two outputs simultaneously similarly does not surprise me, it's probably pulling too much power or something. Who does that? One or the other works, that's fine by me.

While it's blatantly overpriced, I think it's VERY fair to expect that if you pay someone to work on hardware, they will not return it with missing screws and slapdash work.
The upside-down s-video connector could've been forgiven IF everything worked right and IF the hot glue holding the connector in wasn't overflowing to just this side of blocking the actual connector(given his commentary on the s-vid connector is BEFORE he tried to open the thing up, all he knew was it doesn't work right and the connectors are sloppy). That it turned out to be upside-down because he was using the WRONG KIND OF CONNECTOR was just icing on the cake.

I actually expect BETTER from a hobbyist than an assembly line, since they're arguably doing it for love of the game, not because it's a paycheck.
And someone charging four hundred fucking bucks better be a god-damned ARTIST... okay, I guess this Drakon guy is, but surrealism isn't my thing.



Tangentally, I've been known to use more than one connector at a time. Oddities of a multi-system installation. It's not a common setup, but it shouldn't be killing everything(and the board he's installing is designed to support it).


Quote:
Resistors obviously dim the picture. I have to use them on my SNES Jr, but they cause a dark picture with the other models. That should have been caught right away, and is probably the most amateur mistake in the entire thing.

Personally? I think the biggest WTF is that he soldered an entire rat's nest of wires in and routed them clear across the system so that he could install a board that was designed to plug directly into the NES mainboard without wires. I don't actually see where he mounted the RGB PPU, which is... supposed to mount in the mod board.

Tangentally, that seems to be the largest portion of the cost. The PlayChoice-10 boards those are scavenged from have gotten stupid expensive as people kill them to steal their PPUs for RGB mods, and it seems that it costs two hundred bucks just to get an RGB PPU nowadays.

But that's not two hundred dollars worth of craftsmanship in the rest of the mod.
Promising it's worth the money because you do better mods than anyone else, then using someone else's kit and both constructing and installing it improperly is... well, it's somethin'.

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 13:24:38
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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
The s-video port is total bullshit too. You don't even need that port actually, but he should have used a panel mount one. Take the TRS/S-video ports, and make them another Din-8. Cheap and quick, the cables are easier to work with when you make a Din-8 terminated cable.

Hard mode is routing stereo audio and RGB over the Model 1 Genesis AV-out port. It can be done, but you need to slice traces. Thats how I'm doing mine. Fuck the extra holes shit. If I can get away with low-profile rockers as switches I will too. Entirely too large switch Drakon used.

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 21:14:03

Joined: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 15:00:08

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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
Quote:
I think it's VERY fair to expect that if you pay someone to work on hardware, they will not return it with missing screws and slapdash work.


Of course, but it's still silly to make such a big deal out of that. The S-video connector slot on the outside of the back was indeed very sloppy.

Quote:
Tangentally, I've been known to use more than one connector at a time.


At the exact same time, to power two displays at once? I'm sure some extravagent multi-player setups probably do something like that (block off half of each TV for split-screen gaming), but it's certainly not the norm.

Quote:
(and the board he's installing is designed to support it)


Heh, in that case, that's a bigger deal. That suggests serious connection issues in addition to just sloppy use of hot glue.

Quote:
that was designed to plug directly into the NES mainboard without wires


Holy christ. Yeah, that part I did not know.

Man, okay, that is indeed the biggest WTF of all.

Quote:
The PlayChoice-10 boards those are scavenged from have gotten stupid expensive as people kill them to steal their PPUs for RGB mods, and it seems that it costs two hundred bucks just to get an RGB PPU nowadays.


Yeah, and the PC-10 PPUs can't even handle color emphasis (games that use it are unplayable.) It must suck being a PC-10 collector, having all of these assholes destroying all of the boards.

Practically a crime to put a PC-10 into a US NES, too. No microphone input, no peripheral expansion port, no audio mixing support (MMC5, VRC6+7, whatever the name is for the sound-version of the chip in Gimmick, etc.) At least mod a Famicom, and use a tacky pinout adapter on that.

Quote:
But that's not two hundred dollars worth of craftsmanship in the rest of the mod.


Yeah, I was wondering how much was parts vs labor. Was the NES included? The spiffy little adapter board with all the ICs? The PC-10 PPU? Shipping?

Quote:
Promising it's worth the money because you do better mods than anyone else


Wasn't aware he made those claims, either. That is certainly not work to brag about. That's more my style: function over elegance. I'm not an EE, so I'm just happy to get something that works. Eg my crimping tool never works right (or I don't know how to use it), so I solder wires into crimp terminals. Totally wrong, but it totally works, so fuck it. But yeah, I'm an amateur and I don't brag about it.

Mon 28 Oct 2013, 21:26:54
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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
byuu wrote:
Quote:
Tangentally, I've been known to use more than one connector at a time.

At the exact same time, to power two displays at once? I'm sure some extravagent multi-player setups probably do something like that (block off half of each TV for split-screen gaming), but it's certainly not the norm.

When I'm streaming games, I split the console's output between my capture card and my TV, because the program I use with the capture card (DScaler) adds a small amount of lag. Unfortunately, on consoles with only one video output (e.g. the AV Famicom), splitting the signal cuts the brightness approximately in half. My capture card can compensate for this, but my fancy HDTV cannot.

For newer consoles (e.g. PlayStation), I can just feed the S-Video output to the capture card and the composite to my TV and all is well.

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 22:08:20
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Joined: Tue 28 Dec 2010, 08:27:37

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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
BMF54123 wrote:
Unfortunately, on consoles with only one video output (e.g. the AV Famicom), splitting the signal cuts the brightness approximately in half.

Does this happen even with powered splitters?

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 22:21:28
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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
I've never actually tried one, couldn't say.

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Mon 28 Oct 2013, 22:30:12
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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
That is absolutely disgusting. Seriously, all it takes is practice and attention to detail to do this stuff right (Exhibits A, B, C, coming from a guy who, 2 years ago, literally couldn't tin a wire without burning off half an inch or more of insulation). There are so many things so very wrong with this, I don't even know where to start...

Tue 29 Oct 2013, 03:17:12

Joined: Wed 06 May 2009, 04:13:19

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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
byuu wrote:
Quote:
The PlayChoice-10 boards those are scavenged from have gotten stupid expensive as people kill them to steal their PPUs for RGB mods, and it seems that it costs two hundred bucks just to get an RGB PPU nowadays.


Yeah, and the PC-10 PPUs can't even handle color emphasis (games that use it are unplayable.) It must suck being a PC-10 collector, having all of these assholes destroying all of the boards.

Practically a crime to put a PC-10 into a US NES, too. No microphone input, no peripheral expansion port, no audio mixing support (MMC5, VRC6+7, whatever the name is for the sound-version of the chip in Gimmick, etc.) At least mod a Famicom, and use a tacky pinout adapter on that.

AV FamiCom plzkthx.
Sure you lose the mic, but... who cares? In exchange, you have two fully-functional detachable controllers.

Quote:
Quote:
But that's not two hundred dollars worth of craftsmanship in the rest of the mod.


Yeah, I was wondering how much was parts vs labor. Was the NES included? The spiffy little adapter board with all the ICs? The PC-10 PPU? Shipping?

It sounded like the victim*backspace*customer supplied the NES, and everything else was from Drakon's side.
Little bit of internet research suggests the PPU and mod kit probably cost about 275 all together. Everything else was labor and gluesticks.


Quote:
Quote:
Promising it's worth the money because you do better mods than anyone else


Wasn't aware he made those claims, either. That is certainly not work to brag about. That's more my style: function over elegance. I'm not an EE, so I'm just happy to get something that works. Eg my crimping tool never works right (or I don't know how to use it), so I solder wires into crimp terminals. Totally wrong, but it totally works, so fuck it. But yeah, I'm an amateur and I don't brag about it.

Yeah, that's what really made this so awful, is the guy apparently brags extensively about how great his work is. And it sounds like everyone else in the community knows he's full of shit, so he preys upon newbies that don't know better yet.

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Tue 29 Oct 2013, 04:20:18
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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
Isn't someone working on a replacement board that simulates the RGB PPU in an FPGA?

Wow that had to be painful to decap that chip with how much they go for right now.


Edit:

- This and This.
- This website

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Thu 31 Oct 2013, 01:06:35

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Post Re: The worst RGB mod work I've ever seen.
vxbinaca wrote:
Isn't someone working on a replacement board that simulates the RGB PPU in an FPGA?

Wow that had to be painful to decap that chip with how much they go for right now.


Edit:

- This and This.
- This website

Yeah, he's not recreating the RGB PPU. He's reimplementing the colorization of an NTSC PPU, this time in a proper RGB mechanic. By doing a re-implementation, he can keep full functionality, which the RGB PPU doesn't.

Pity he's not re-implementing the entire chip, as a drop-in replacement would be nice, and open up the potential of making something else with the PPU and not murdering an NES or, Althena forbid, PlayChoice/VS System for one.
But that's a bitch and a half to do with 100% accuracy even if you have a clean chip design used in multiple popular platforms and a comprehensive and accurate datasheet to work from.

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Thu 31 Oct 2013, 02:40:18
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