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Posted on 11-07-18, 08:27 am (revision 1)

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Democrats win U.S. House, GOP retain Senate

wish I was more familiar with the U.S system and what that means for the near future but hopefully it's bad news for the GOP and the 2020 election.



edited to add:
I thought about making a new thread initially, but you're right it's better this way.Thanks for splitting the thread.
Posted on 11-07-18, 01:27 pm

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Posted by DonJon
Democrats win U.S. House, GOP retain Senate

wish I was more familiar with the U.S system and what that means for the near future but hopefully it's bad news for the GOP and the 2020 election.

It means some lying snakes were voted out and replaced with snaking liars.

I love how people genuinely believe that the Republican and Democrat parties are different in any meaningful sense. Both of them, at this point, exist solely to consolidate power and serve major corporations. If you are not a Fortune 500 company, neither half of the ratbastard party is working for you.


ON THE UPSIDE, it does mean that the House and Senate are working at cross purposes right now, as they spend time trying to look like there is a meaningful difference between the two parties through showmanship and blocking bills because they came from someone who wears the wrong animal instead of because they disagree in any meaningful way with the bill. This restricts the damage they can do and slows the country's decline.



The fundamental, most important difference between republicans and democrats is that the democrats are a lot better at internet marketing.
And I guess that republican employees are less likely to trash the White House on the way out. The last two democrat presidents have left a lot of disabled office equipment in their wake as their underlings ran around cutting cables and hiding parts.




If neither party puts up a presidential candidate I can in good conscience vote for in 2020, I'll write in Cobra Commander again.
In all fairness, the democrats probably won't make the same mistake of insisting Mrs. Clinton is actually electable and sabotaging insurgencies from candidates that show strong support across party lines and age brackets.

Just in case you thought something could EVER be straightforward, and needed someone to dash your hopes across the rocky shoals of harsh reality.
Posted on 11-07-18, 04:43 pm

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The Democrats basically never had a chance of taking the Senate. Too many seats occupied by Republicans were not up for election this year. (Senate terms are six years, but the elections are staggered, so only 1/3 of the US Senate is actually up for election at any given time).

I'm generally satisfied with this outcome. Having one party control the House of Representatives and the other control the Senate leads to a Congress on the whole which will be generally ineffective unless something is really important enough to work together on. IMO that's the ideal Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Screw_Yall
Posted on 11-08-18, 01:06 am
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Posted by CaptainJistuce
I love how people genuinely believe that the Republican and Democrat parties are different in any meaningful sense. Both of them, at this point, exist solely to consolidate power and serve major corporations. If you are not a Fortune 500 company, neither half of the ratbastard party is working for you.



As an external observer, it seems to me that both parties have their problems, but the Republican party is much scarier because it has the discipline and unity to achieve its worst impulses. The Democrats have a tendency to let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and to get distracted by all the things they *could* be doing rather than the things they *should* be doing.

Also, y'know, the whole "white nationalism" thing.

With any luck, the Trump years will inspire a generation of politically active citizens, where previously the only significant political activity was from lobbyists and corporations, and those citizens will hold their elected representatives accountable.

Here in Australia, we also have a slimy centre-right party and a goofy centre-left party, but we've also got a bunch of minor parties at various points on the spectrum, even some independents, in both the House and the Senate. Sometimes they shoot down good ideas, or make simple things more complex than they ought to be, but often they reign in the worst impulses of the larger parties and pull the conversation towards the needs of the citizens rather than the will of the parties. I'm pretty distrustful of patriotism in general, but this is one of the few things that makes me proud of Australia.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 11-08-18, 01:20 am
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Can we at least do two little things before we continue? Namely taking this politics talk to another thread and remembering to remain civil? Not saying any of you aren't but with a contentuous topic you know how it usually goes.
Posted on 11-08-18, 01:41 am

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I could bust out ye olde Hitler/Stalin chart if it'd help.

Just in case you thought something could EVER be straightforward, and needed someone to dash your hopes across the rocky shoals of harsh reality.
Posted on 11-08-18, 04:45 am

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Yeah, it'd be nice to not bring the infighting over here. The initial question was a valid one and no one has presented an opinionated side regarding the election, itself. I agree that it would be nice to have it stay that way.

Re: Australia, our government sometimes votes in ridiculous laws and then back-pedals.
Case in point: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/10/16/asia-pacific/aussie-government-blames-admin-error-okay-white-vote/
Posted on 11-08-18, 06:04 am

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Posted by Screwtape

As an external observer, it seems to me that both parties have their problems, but the Republican party is much scarier because it has the discipline and unity to achieve its worst impulses. The Democrats have a tendency to let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and to get distracted by all the things they *could* be doing rather than the things they *should* be doing.


You have to remember that what the parties SAY they are trying to do and what they ACTUALLY try to do are not the same thing.
The National Democratic Party has found they can promise a lot of utopian idealistic stuff that they don't even TRY to do, and then blame the evil Republicans for blocking measures they never had any intention of implementing.

Both parties will pay lip service to things which matter to actual people while spending most of their efforts on things which benefit large corporations to the detriment of the people.



Here in Australia, we also have a slimy centre-right party and a goofy centre-left party, but we've also got a bunch of minor parties at various points on the spectrum, even some independents, in both the House and the Senate. Sometimes they shoot down good ideas, or make simple things more complex than they ought to be, but often they reign in the worst impulses of the larger parties and pull the conversation towards the needs of the citizens rather than the will of the parties.


The big problem in the US is that the early political parties stepped in and rigged things very early to funnel power to them. Within a few decades, political parties were baked in to most of the state laws and the now-infamous two-party system had arisen. And then they were hoisted by their own petards as they lost enough favor for a third party to gain momentum, and the system they set up to ensure their power rapidly siphoned all of it away to the newcomer. So the rise of a viable third party rapidly leads to the end of one of the existing two parties.

I am glad your country learned from our mistakes.

(And one of the earliest supreme court cases was about political parties changing the laws to consolidate their powers, specifically in regards to the ever-popular electoral college and the then-new idea that one state's electoral votes should all be rewarded to the singular winner of a popular vote. The ruling was that, while it was very much in violation of the spirit of the constitution, it was not in violation of the letter of the law.)


I'm pretty distrustful of patriotism in general, but this is one of the few things that makes me proud of Australia.


The thing about patriotism is that it isn't supposed to be blind adoration of everything your country does. You love your country, so you want it to be the best in the world, so you do what you need to make it better. You don't excuse the faults or pretend they don't exist.

This has, in recent decades, been substituted for you love your country because it is already the best in the world and perfect in every way and only a godless commie would insinuate otherwise.

Just in case you thought something could EVER be straightforward, and needed someone to dash your hopes across the rocky shoals of harsh reality.
Posted on 11-08-18, 06:04 am
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That's a good example of how the system works, actually. Our current conservative government doesn't have the majority it needs to pass anything it likes, so it requires the support of minor parties and independents to get things done, which is usually conditional and limited. In situations like this, where the government went off the deep end, senators that would normally vote with the government voted against them, preventing a stupid mistake.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 11-08-18, 02:50 pm

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Posted by CaptainJistuce

and only a godless commie would insinuate otherwise.


Me! Me! That's me! (jumping up and down waving hand etc)
Posted on 11-09-18, 04:41 am
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Posted by CaptainJistuce
You have to remember that what the parties SAY they are trying to do and what they ACTUALLY try to do are not the same thing.
The National Democratic Party has found they can promise a lot of utopian idealistic stuff that they don't even TRY to do, and then blame the evil Republicans for blocking measures they never had any intention of implementing.

Both parties will pay lip service to things which matter to actual people while spending most of their efforts on things which benefit large corporations to the detriment of the people.


The thing is, people get old and die, and groups need to recruit new members. If a group yells "brown people are scary" or "healthcare reform" for long enough, even if the group explicitly intends to do nothing about them, they'll attract new members who do care about those issues and want to do something about them.

I guess the real battles in American politics are the party primaries, since the real elections don't give much feedback about what the voters actually want. All the more reason to have your say, I guess.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 11-09-18, 05:59 am

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Posted by Screwtape

The thing is, people get old and die, and groups need to recruit new members. If a group yells "brown people are scary" or "healthcare reform" for long enough, even if the group explicitly intends to do nothing about them, they'll attract new members who do care about those issues and want to do something about them.


And when they fail to do what they promised, they invariably point their finger at the other side and say "It is all because those fascists/commies over there blocked every attempt we made!", while still finding time to agree on anything that fucks individuals over in favor of large corporations(like healthcare "reform", which simply forces most americans to buy a product from the companies that ruined the american healthcare system in the first place and calls it a day)




I guess the real battles in American politics are the party primaries, since the real elections don't give much feedback about what the voters actually want. All the more reason to have your say, I guess.

The democrat primaries are somewhat insular. The party effectively has a large block of reserved votes they can pre-allocate to their chosen candidate("superdelegates", as they call them), making up about 15% of the overall vote, which is part of how they shut down Sanders.

They can do whatever the hell they want, because the presidential primaries are part of the party bureaucracy and not an actual part of national law.

By contrast, the republican primaries DON'T have those reserved votes, and are almost entirely determined by actual vote.
This is how Trump got the nomination despite basically everyone in the party hating him. He really manipulated the media masterfully. Any time it looked like one of the other candidates was going to get good press, Trump said something so monumentally stupid that suddenly all eyes were exclusively on him and the good publicity just rolled by un-noticed.

(It is tempting to write it off as Trump being an ignorant clown with no brain-to-mouth filter, but the timing was so consistently good that I have to believe he was intentionally doing whatever it took to turn cameras away from the competition.)

Just in case you thought something could EVER be straightforward, and needed someone to dash your hopes across the rocky shoals of harsh reality.
Posted on 11-09-18, 08:19 am
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Posted by CaptainJistuce
And when they fail to do what they promised, they invariably point their finger at the other side and say "It is all because those fascists/commies over there blocked every attempt we made!", while still finding time to agree on anything that fucks individuals over in favor of large corporations(like healthcare "reform", which simply forces most americans to buy a product from the companies that ruined the american healthcare system in the first place and calls it a day)


I haven't been following American politics for long enough to have an informed opinion either way on that, so I'll defer to your greater experience.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 11-09-18, 12:02 pm

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http://loweringthebar.net/2018/11/assorted-election-stupidity.html

Just to round out the 2018 US elections, here's a bunch of articles about people who were in jail, headed to jail, or headed to the morgue when they won the election.

Just in case you thought something could EVER be straightforward, and needed someone to dash your hopes across the rocky shoals of harsh reality.
Posted on 11-10-18, 12:23 pm

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I just hope Canada is not getting a Trump 2.0 next, given that we tend to mirror U.S politics and seeing how the last few provincial elections went...
Posted on 11-10-18, 04:18 pm (revision 1)

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Meanwhile, our latest PM continues to make an ass of himself....

https://www.facebook.com/abcinsydney/videos/vb.110569469014/766967926989419/

This reminds me of another amazing interview followed by an even more amazing interview with an even more incompetent PM some years ago....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT9XS_TvzQ
Posted on 11-10-18, 09:35 pm
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And predictably enough, that "even more incompetent PM" who got booted out by his own party seems to be trying to gather support for another go.

If you have conservative views, that's fine, even if you're a politician. We can talk about them and put them to the electorate and see what happens. But this weird insistence that far-right-wing conservatism is what the country really wants, all electoral evidence to the contrary, is bizarre and frustrating.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 11-10-18, 10:02 pm

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You probably mean "bizarre and dangerous".
Posted on 11-10-18, 10:30 pm
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Given that our conservative party was elected with only a one-seat majority last time, and in the lead-up to election next year they've just deposed their own leader AGAIN, I feel pretty comfortable even the moderate conservatives won't win next time.

Then again, that does kind of depend on our progressive party presenting themselves as a kinder, more sensible, more pragmatic alternative. I guess I'm more worried about the progressives shooting themselves in the foot than about people embracing our current conservative leader. Say what you want about Trump's politics and policies, the man's got bravado and bluster that helps him connect with his voters. I don't think Australia's really had a charismatic leader since the 1980s, when our Prime Minister held the Guinness world record for drinking a yard of beer in eleven seconds.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Posted on 11-10-18, 11:50 pm (revision 1)
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Posted by Screwtape
I guess I'm more worried about the progressives shooting themselves in the foot than about people embracing our current conservative leader.


That's basically how Trump got elected. The democrats shot themselves in the foot by forcing an unlikable female candidate because they thought they had the election tied up. Then, democrats turned out in the lowest number in years because of that same assumption.


Say what you want about Trump's politics and policies, the man's got bravado and bluster that helps him connect with his voters.


You mean he gives the dirtiest parts of society, what Hillary called "the deplorables," the courage and confirmation that it's OK to express hatred and bigotry towards others.

But most of the people who vote republican are in rural areas and have no idea who their candidates are or what they actually do. They just vote the same party because of inertia, and they never pay attention to the news to know what's going on in Washington, and assume the politicians are actually following through on the lies they told. The Republican party of today is not the party of yesterday, but these people don't know it.

*edit*
Posted by BearOso
by forcing an unlikable female candidate


And by this, I will clarify that they were obsessed with having a female president to the detriment of everything else. Clinton was the only female they had at the time, but she had an unfortunate amount of baggage, and they should have passed on her. I really hope she doesn't try and run in 2020. We've got a number of better female candidates in the running, and a number of good male candidates, too, and I hope we're smart enough to choose the best, not a token.
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