Main » Emulation » N64 emulators vs. "PJ64 v1.x" emulators » New reply
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    CaptainJistuce
    Posted by tomman
    But eventually, the time for a proper LLE solution has to come, even if it can't run games on anything but a overclocked Threadripper/i9. There is room for both, as long as the target is the same: emulating a console, not inventing a new platform that it's going to be misused by ROM hackers!

    When tomman says we need an emulator that requires an overclocked Threadripper/i9 to run playably, listen to him.
    Nicholas Steel
    Posted by jjndig
    HLE and stuff was cool back in the day sure but seriously, it shouldn’t be used nowadays unless we have little to no clue what is being done at the low level operations. (And I’m saying this from someone who knows literally nothing about this stuff)

    You have that backwards. HLE should be used for things we have a clear understanding of and LLE should be researched/used for things we don't fully understand or don't yet know how to optimize.

    The only reason HLE gets a bad wrap is because developers like to use optimizations that break emulation accuracy.
    Kakashi Yep, everything is always going to get faster and coding is always going to become better. We never thought the LLE functions of bsnes would become faster, but he just keeps on surprising us!
    tomman
    Posted by sureanem
    I disagree, I think HLE is a nice optimization. For N64, which can not always be emulated at 60 FPS without issues (think mobile etc), why wouldn't you want to use it? It's like compiling with -O3 - sure, debugging will be hell, but it runs much faster. If you already have an accurate LLE emulator, why not? And if you don't, HLE is both faster to make and nicer to play. LLE is pretty much only useful for research, or for when it's so fast that it doesn't matter if you do HLE or LLE anyway.

    And then you have all those consoles for which HLE doesn't make sense at all, like anything that doesn't have 3D hardware, 32/64-bit processors, or black-box DSPs.

    What would be the point of a HLE NES emulator anyway?

    If your target hardware is complex, yes, HLE is a good choice. And in the case of the N64, it was the only choice for a long time, given how complex and undocumented is the underlying architecture (I'm looking at you, SGI!). But eventually, the time for a proper LLE solution has to come, even if it can't run games on anything but a overclocked Threadripper/i9. There is room for both, as long as the target is the same: emulating a console, not inventing a new platform that it's going to be misused by ROM hackers!
    jjndig I had no idea what I was talking about. Pretty much standard Jamie behaviour.

    Ignore what I said... (and this thread can continue as if this hadn’t happened I guess)
    ‮strfry("emanresu") I disagree, I think HLE is a nice optimization. For N64, which can not always be emulated at 60 FPS without issues (think mobile etc), why wouldn't you want to use it? It's like compiling with -O3 - sure, debugging will be hell, but it runs much faster. If you already have an accurate LLE emulator, why not? And if you don't, HLE is both faster to make and nicer to play. LLE is pretty much only useful for research, or for when it's so fast that it doesn't matter if you do HLE or LLE anyway.
    jjndig Given how the SM64 hacking community’s veterans are extremely down-looking on “newcomers” and anyone not doing things the “traditional way” due to the amount of kids that are too ambitious yet have no time, as well as their overall prejudicial behaviour for the most part (as well as over dramatic from what I know) it’s incredibly unsurprising that not only SMWC lets them roam free but they adhere to things that aren’t even close to a real N64.

    HLE and stuff was cool back in the day sure but seriously, it shouldn’t be used nowadays unless we have little to no clue what is being done at the low level operations. (And I’m saying this from someone who knows literally nothing about this stuff)
    tomman I actually use that one.

    It works very nicely, and while it does not have a point-and-click UI (AKA dialogs with property pages) for modifying plugin settings (aside of selecting which plugins you want to use), it DOES integrate a texteditor to edit the .conf file (can't remember ATM if it does syntax highlighting). A fair compromise, considering the limitations of the M64P plugin API.
    Kakashi What about Mupen64Plus-Qt?
    ‮strfry("emanresu") And then there is the 'interesting' aspect of having to find out how their keys are numbered, and how to enable the more obscure features like mouse input.
    From a pure UX perspective, Project64 1.6 over Wine/PlayOnLinux is the best. Install and go, no harder than Windows. Runs like natively, fast, nice UI. Emulates all released games (correct me if I'm wrong) given the right plugin set, and even emulates some games more modern emulators won't take too.
    Provided you have no philosophical qualms about emulating an emulator, what's not to like?
    Nicholas Steel I know all that, Bizhawk uses the Mupen64+ emulation core so I don't need to worry about Mupen64+'s lack of a GUI or the various poor GUI Frontends for it (most of them are abandoned iirc).
    tomman
    Posted by Nicholas Steel
    Bizhawk is missing all the extremely helpful tooltips for the GlideN64 plugin though (you can see them if you use the plugin in PJ64). It's also missing some options that the plugin exposes when used with Pj64.

    Then you will not want to use Mupen64+.

    There is no GUI (beyond the game window). There are third-party launchers that DO allow to modifiy some settings, but nothing to modify plugin-specific settings.

    Instead, you get to edit configuration files. LIKE AN ANIMAL. But then, the config files are thankfully commented, explaining the purpose of every single option (as long as the plugin developer didn't neglected to add them, of course! - those comments are generated on the fly by the core and/or the plugins on first run, it's a part of the M64P API)
    Nicholas Steel Bizhawk is missing all the extremely helpful tooltips for the GlideN64 plugin though (you can see them if you use the plugin in PJ64). It's also missing some options that the plugin exposes when used with Pj64.
    wareya On a completely unrelated note, I recently realized that bizhawk (yes) is the simplest way to get a working, up-to-date n64 emulation package. Jeez.
    Kawaoneechan
    Posted by NTI
    but it asks to add a FuSoYa header right after
    Ohohohoh, I see what you did there.
    NTI
    Posted by Nicholas Steel
    Pretty sure Lunar Magic now supports headerless ROM's. Took a long time for that to happen though, way too long.

    Not really. Lunar Magic DOES accept to load an unheadered ROM, but it asks to add a FuSoYa header right after so the program can do its magic.

    Header Magic is still working on newer LM versions, though.
    tomman We're in the era of affordable (and very reliable) flashcarts that use solid state storage. And if you want to dump your ROMs, there are plenty of more modern ways, from Retrode to console->PC link cables that work over good ol' USB.

    Who in the hell still uses cart copiers in 2019?!
    Kawaoneechan
    Posted by KingMike
    Parallel ports and floppy drives both have not been produced on new PCs in over 10 years.
    Posted by Foone Turing
    I ANGRY AT THIS STATEMENT FROM MY COMPUTER WHICH HAS BOTH A PARALLEL PORT AND A FLOPPY DRIVE
    AND WHICH I BUILT NEW LAST YEAR
    Nicholas Steel Pretty sure Lunar Magic now supports headerless ROM's. Took a long time for that to happen though, way too long.
    KingMike Someone on RHDN making a SNES checksum calculator using 8 threads because existing ones "are too slow".
    One thing to note is the author adds header support.

    Why header support, I wonder? Oh yeah, probably because of Lunar Magic. I'm guessing Lunar Magic still requires headered ROMs. In 2019. Is that correct?

    Headers being data added by game copiers. Game Copiers which allowed games to be loaded to the device using either a parallel port or floppy disks. Parallel ports and floppy drives both have not been produced on new PCs in over 10 years.

    So why again is there an argument for headered SNES ROMs?
      Main » Emulation » N64 emulators vs. "PJ64 v1.x" emulators » New reply
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